Re: [rtcweb] AD evaluation: draft-ietf-rtcweb-stun-consent-freshness-11
"Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" <rmohanr@cisco.com> Thu, 07 May 2015 10:41 UTC
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From: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" <rmohanr@cisco.com>
To: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>, "Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy)" <tireddy@cisco.com>, Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in>, Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [rtcweb] AD evaluation: draft-ietf-rtcweb-stun-consent-freshness-11
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Date: Thu, 07 May 2015 10:41:53 +0000
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Cc: "rtcweb@ietf.org" <rtcweb@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] AD evaluation: draft-ietf-rtcweb-stun-consent-freshness-11
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Proposed text WFM Regards, Ram -----Original Message----- From: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> Date: Thursday, 7 May 2015 3:19 pm To: Cisco Employee <rmohanr@cisco.com>, "Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy)" <tireddy@cisco.com>, Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in>, Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com> Cc: "rtcweb@ietf.org" <rtcweb@ietf.org> Subject: RE: [rtcweb] AD evaluation: draft-ietf-rtcweb-stun-consent-freshness-11 >Hi, > >The text looks ok, but I think we can simplify/clarify it a little. > >For example, the usage of "flow" is a little strange, since we explicitly >say that no media is sent :) > >Also, "failure" is the wrong wording in my opinion, because there is no >failure. > >What about: > > An endpoint that is not sending any application data does not need to > maintain consent. However, not sending any traffic could cause NAT or > firewall mappings to expire. Furthermore, having one peer unable to >send > is detrimental to many protocols. Absent better information about the > network, if an endpoint needs to ensure its NAT or firewall mappings do > not expire, it can be done using keepalive or other techniques (see > Section 10 of [RFC5245] and see [RFC6263]). > >Regards, > >Christer > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Ram Mohan R (rmohanr) [mailto:rmohanr@cisco.com] >Sent: 7. toukokuuta 2015 12:19 >To: Christer Holmberg; Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy); Alissa Cooper; >Martin Thomson >Cc: rtcweb@ietf.org >Subject: Re: [rtcweb] AD evaluation: >draft-ietf-rtcweb-stun-consent-freshness-11 > >Hi Christer, > >How about the below text. Does it sound better ? > >OLD: > > An endpoint that is not sending any application data does not need to > maintain consent. However, failure to send could cause any NAT or > firewall mappings for the flow to expire. Furthermore, having one > peer unable to send is detrimental to many protocols. Absent better > information about the network, an endpoint SHOULD maintain consent if > there is any possibility that a flow might be needed again. > >NEW: > > An endpoint that is not sending any application data does not need to > maintain consent. However, failure to send could cause any NAT or > firewall mappings for the flow to expire. Furthermore, having one > peer unable to send is detrimental to many protocols. Absent better > information about the network, if an endpoint needs to ensure its NAT > or firewall mappings persist which can be done using keepalive or > other techniques (see Section 10 of [RFC5245] and see [RFC6263]). > > > >Ram > >-----Original Message----- >From: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> >Date: Thursday, 7 May 2015 2:40 pm >To: "Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy)" <tireddy@cisco.com>, Cisco Employee ><rmohanr@cisco.com>, Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in>, Martin Thomson ><martin.thomson@gmail.com> >Cc: "rtcweb@ietf.org" <rtcweb@ietf.org> >Subject: RE: [rtcweb] AD evaluation: >draft-ietf-rtcweb-stun-consent-freshness-11 > >>Hi, >> >>>>>Martin¹s statement says SHOULD here and does not mandate. ICE >>>>>keepalives could also be used to keep the NAT state >>>> >>>> There needs to be a good justification for a SHOULD, and consent was >>>> never intended for NAT keep-alives. >>>> >>>> Also keep in mind that, with the "virtual connection" concept, there >>>> might be a big number of ICE connections - some of which you may >>>> never use. Why send consent on those, if there is no media? >>> >>> ICE keepalives or consent is only required for candidate pairs >>>selected for media, >> >>Correct. But, you may have multiple candidate pairs "selected for >>media", but that doesn't mean you are sending media on all of them. >>Very likely you are, at any given time, only sending media on one of >>them. >> >>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5245#section-10 mandates sending >>>keepalives if no packet is sent on the candidate pair ICE is using for >>>a media component for Tr seconds. STUN Binding Indication or consent >>>can be used for keepalives. >> >>Correct. My issue is why there should be a "SHOULD send consent" on >>candidate pairs currently not used for sending media. In such case, >>only the NAT bindings need to be maintained, and the keep-alives take >>care of that. >> >>Regards, >> >>Christer >> >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> >>> Date: Wednesday, 6 May 2015 12:23 pm >>> To: Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in>, Martin Thomson >>> <martin.thomson@gmail.com> >>> Cc: "rtcweb@ietf.org" <rtcweb@ietf.org> >>> Subject: Re: [rtcweb] AD evaluation: >>> draft-ietf-rtcweb-stun-consent-freshness-11 >>> >>> >Hi, >>> > >>> >I don't think you need to continue doing consent because of NAT >>> >issues, if you are sending normal STUN keep-alives. >>> > >>> >Regards, >>> > >>> >Christer >>> > >>> >-----Original Message----- >>> >From: rtcweb [mailto:rtcweb-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Alissa >>> >Cooper >>> >Sent: 2. toukokuuta 2015 2:20 >>> >To: Martin Thomson >>> >Cc: rtcweb@ietf.org >>> >Subject: Re: [rtcweb] AD evaluation: >>> >draft-ietf-rtcweb-stun-consent-freshness-11 >>> > >>> > >>> >On May 1, 2015, at 9:54 AM, Martin Thomson >>> <martin.thomson@gmail.com> >>> >wrote: >>> > >>> >> On 30 April 2015 at 17:32, Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in> wrote: >>> >>> "An endpoint that is not sending any application data does not >>> >>> need >>>to >>> >>> maintain consent. However, failure to send could cause any NAT >>>or >>> >>> firewall mappings for the flow to expire. Furthermore, having >>>one >>> >>> peer unable to send is detrimental to many protocols." >>> >>> >>> >>> It sounds like the unstated implication here is that if you are >>> >>>such an endpoint, you should keep doing consent checks anyway to >>> >>>maintain consent. Should that be stated explicitly, or am I >>>misunderstanding? >>> >> >>> >> Can you tell that this is my text? >>> >> >>> >> Yep, the unspoken implication is that if you stop maintaining >>> >> consent, a flow is highly likely to break. I'm OK with making >>> >> that >>>explicit. >>> >> >>> >> ... . Absent better information about the network, an endpoint >>> >> SHOULD maintain consent if there is any possibility that a flow >>> >> might be needed again. >>> > >>> >WFM >>> > >>> >> >>> >> (Thanks for the suggestion on Sec7. I wasn't happy with it >>> >> before.) >>> > >>> >_______________________________________________ >>> >rtcweb mailing list >>> >rtcweb@ietf.org >>> >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb >>> > >>> >_______________________________________________ >>> >rtcweb mailing list >>> >rtcweb@ietf.org >>> >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> rtcweb mailing list >>> rtcweb@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb >
- [rtcweb] AD evaluation: draft-ietf-rtcweb-stun-co… Alissa Cooper
- Re: [rtcweb] AD evaluation: draft-ietf-rtcweb-stu… Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)
- Re: [rtcweb] AD evaluation: draft-ietf-rtcweb-stu… Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] AD evaluation: draft-ietf-rtcweb-stu… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] AD evaluation: draft-ietf-rtcweb-stu… Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] AD evaluation: draft-ietf-rtcweb-stu… Alissa Cooper
- Re: [rtcweb] AD evaluation: draft-ietf-rtcweb-stu… Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)
- Re: [rtcweb] AD evaluation: draft-ietf-rtcweb-stu… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] AD evaluation: draft-ietf-rtcweb-stu… Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)
- Re: [rtcweb] AD evaluation: draft-ietf-rtcweb-stu… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] AD evaluation: draft-ietf-rtcweb-stu… Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy)
- Re: [rtcweb] AD evaluation: draft-ietf-rtcweb-stu… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] AD evaluation: draft-ietf-rtcweb-stu… Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)
- Re: [rtcweb] AD evaluation: draft-ietf-rtcweb-stu… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] AD evaluation: draft-ietf-rtcweb-stu… Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)
- Re: [rtcweb] AD evaluation: draft-ietf-rtcweb-stu… Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] AD evaluation: draft-ietf-rtcweb-stu… Alissa Cooper
- Re: [rtcweb] AD evaluation: draft-ietf-rtcweb-stu… Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)
- Re: [rtcweb] AD evaluation: draft-ietf-rtcweb-stu… Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)