Re: [rtcweb] Ben Campbell's Yes on draft-ietf-rtcweb-rtp-usage-24: (with COMMENT)
"Ben Campbell" <ben@nostrum.com> Fri, 12 June 2015 21:00 UTC
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From: Ben Campbell <ben@nostrum.com>
To: Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2015 16:00:10 -0500
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Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Ben Campbell's Yes on draft-ietf-rtcweb-rtp-usage-24: (with COMMENT)
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Hi, Comments inline. I removed parts that do not seem to need further discussion. On 11 Jun 2015, at 7:04, Magnus Westerlund wrote: [...] >>>> -- 7.1, first paragraph: "applications MUST also implement >>>> congestion >>>> control to >>>> allow them to adapt to changes in network capacity." >>>> >>>> Is that the aformentioned not-yet-standardized congestion control >>>> algorithm, or something else? >>> >>> As we have no standardized congestion control yet, we can't point to >>> anything. But, an implementation must implement something, even if >>> completely proprietary. >> >> It would be helpful to either clarify the "even if proprietary" part, >> or >> perhaps move this sentence closer to the bit about no standardized >> mechanism. (But this is not a show stopper.) > > Ok, > > I propose that we add this sentence: "The congestion control algorithm > will have to be proprietary until a standardized congestion control > algorithm is available." into the first paragraph in 7.1: > > WebRTC Endpoints MUST implement the RTP circuit breaker algorithm > that is described in [I-D.ietf-avtcore-rtp-circuit-breakers]. The > RTP circuit breaker is designed to enable applications to recognise > and react to situations of extreme network congestion. However, > since the RTP circuit breaker might not be triggered until congestion > becomes extreme, it cannot be considered a substitute for congestion > control, and applications MUST also implement congestion control to > allow them to adapt to changes in network capacity. The congestion > control algorithm will have to be proprietary until a standardized > congestion control algorithm is available. Any future RTP congestion > control algorithms are expected to operate within the envelope > allowed by the circuit breaker. > > Does this satisfies your concerns? > Yes, thanks. >> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> -- 11, 2nd paragraph from end: >>>> >>>> It seems like the msid reference should be normative. >>> >>> Our intention was to keep this informative. Therefore the chosen >>> style >>> of writing that sentence. The actual normative inclusion of MSID >>> into >>> the WebRTC solution is done by JSEP. >> >> Okay. It might be helpful, but not required, to state this sentence >> in >> the form of "[jsep] specifies that..." >> > > So what you want is that paragraph to read more like this? > > Javascript Session Establishment Protocol [I-D.ietf-rtcweb-jsep] > specifies that the binding between the WebRTC MediaStreams, > MediaStreamTracks and the SSRC is done as specified in "Cross Session > Stream Identification in the Session Description Protocol" > [I-D.ietf-mmusic-msid]. The MSID document [I-D.ietf-mmusic-msid] > also defines, in section 4.1, how to map unknown source packet stream > SSRCs to MediaStreamTracks and MediaStreams. Yes, I think that helps. [...] >>> The TSVWG document referenced do normatively reference the DART >>> document. But, we could include the DART document in the same >>> sentence >>> as the TSVWG document. >> >> I'm okay leaving it to the deeper conversation in the TSVWG doc. I >> mainly mentioned it because I had thought the intent was to add the >> mention here if the dart draft was sufficiently far along in the >> process >> when this draft was submitted. > > Actually, I think I found a simple way of referencing it, and it is > relevant in that discussion. So the sentence is proposed to read: > > However, depending on the QoS > mechanism and what markings that are applied, this can result in not > only different packet drop probabilities but also packet reordering, > see [I-D.ietf-tsvwg-rtcweb-qos] and [I-D.ietf-dart-dscp-rtp] for > further discussion. > That works for me. >>>> -- 13: 3rd paragraph: >>>> >>>> Isn't that security solution MTU as well as MTI? If so, it might be >>>> worth >>>> mentioning it here. >>> >>> You mean Mandatory to Use, not Maximum Transmission Unit, don't you? >>> Yes, it is mandatory to use, we can make that clear. >>> >> >> Yes, mandatory to use. :-) >> > > So text proposed to be changed to. > > A mandatory to implement and use > media security solution is created by combining this secured RTP > profile and DTLS-SRTP keying [RFC5764] as defined by Section 5.5 of > [I-D.ietf-rtcweb-security-arch]. That works for me. Thanks! Ben.
- [rtcweb] Ben Campbell's Yes on draft-ietf-rtcweb-… Ben Campbell
- [rtcweb] Ben Campbell's Yes on draft-ietf-rtcweb-… Ben Campbell
- Re: [rtcweb] Ben Campbell's Yes on draft-ietf-rtc… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Ben Campbell's Yes on draft-ietf-rtc… Ben Campbell
- Re: [rtcweb] Ben Campbell's Yes on draft-ietf-rtc… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Ben Campbell's Yes on draft-ietf-rtc… Ben Campbell