[rtcweb] New language (was: ... WebRTC JS Object API Model)
Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com> Mon, 01 July 2013 18:57 UTC
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Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2013 11:57:52 -0700
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From: Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com>
To: Ted Hardie <ted.ietf@gmail.com>
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Subject: [rtcweb] New language (was: ... WebRTC JS Object API Model)
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On 1 July 2013 11:17, Ted Hardie <ted.ietf@gmail.com> wrote: > Honestly, I have read it and I don't see how you avoid mandating some > standard > interface between the JS and browser. That needn't be SDP, but if it is > causing the > two sides to negotiate candidate transports and emit RTP, it's going to be > hard going > to avoid it being SDPNG. This is an important argument, but it's only correct up to a point. And that is misleading. SDP does a lot of things that an API can do in far simpler ways. Take BUNDLE, or the plan A/B/No question. We all know what these need to do, but we are encumbered by existing SDP - which is no single thing - in trying to reach a conclusion. Interconnectedness makes SDP hard. Harder than it needs to be. The main advantages of a new form of expression come from its ability to isolate problems. For instance, separating transport establishment was clearly a big win for Jingle in terms of flexibility, simplicity, capabilities. But those examples speak directly to your point. A new "language" might be unencumbered in a way that might make addressing these problems easier, it might even be more capable, but it is still just a new way of saying the same old thing. Offer/answer is the problem. It's a contrivance that can be chosen or rejected depending on how you plan to interact with the API. That embeds a negotiation engine into the browser, along with all the machinery for how to negotiate everything that SDP expresses. Negotiation is an extra, a feature that the IETF decided to add to the API to make it "easier to use". That wouldn't be a problem if it weren't mandatory, but it's the only way to do anything. (In contrast, CU-RTC-Web provides a negotiation feature, but it's an optional extra.) So SDP truly becomes a problem when coupled to offer/answer. The way that features interact become a problem for standardization, not because they interact with each other - interaction problems are what engineers are for - but because they are negotiated. And it's not the SDP negotiation that is the worst: it's the negotiation of what it means. We all know what it means, but I'm certain no two people "know" SDP the same way. That means another sort of negotiation. And those negotiations require that those engineers be sent to places like the IETF to argue endlessly, or play at politics. --Martin
- [rtcweb] New language (was: ... WebRTC JS Object … Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] New language (was: ... WebRTC JS Obj… Roy, Radhika R CIV USARMY (US)