Re: Mike Bishop's Abstain on draft-ietf-bfd-optimizing-authentication-33: (with COMMENT)

Mike Bishop <mbishop@evequefou.be> Wed, 01 October 2025 19:35 UTC

Return-Path: <mbishop@evequefou.be>
X-Original-To: rtg-bfd@mail2.ietf.org
Delivered-To: rtg-bfd@mail2.ietf.org
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC3346C097DB; Wed, 1 Oct 2025 12:35:14 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ietf.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.097
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_SAFE_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: mail2.ietf.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=evequefou.be
Received: from mail2.ietf.org ([166.84.6.31]) by localhost (mail2.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KLJzWwIRmiXm; Wed, 1 Oct 2025 12:35:13 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from DM5PR21CU001.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-centralusazon11021106.outbound.protection.outlook.com [52.101.62.106]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-384) server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D81AC6C097D4; Wed, 1 Oct 2025 12:35:13 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector10001; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=mxZK7A6MjKixLiznUrIhGAPfIADwfCf5t1cs2XJ0jQR/AeaxWYCtl2WHzULtrN2opSl5ZEhmqfJolQ40OE/GJbpaJebtUO8wcj4DE5iKvsUGmT7q+mspq9cEWOUZlhx7Jxmrd8EqWCeDVdkHjlXOFuT+NOvPCBSAsTu3lCUq+sxCn9eBR57tfUW6i1K0gaJ+uklPEP/Nlvw1wcrmRhqcKzMzfvoqN5pa5mU3McyI0rA1LkLdtJhwhhH2iRIBNr15wudgCi5ILWCIJXaPX5nDyUOP4lkIV97Z2xpsIlC1UYWIfT+tHmg6LhHgAOIbLqqtr5VrZyWpMrhBrzIAcY/jSA==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector10001; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=OWtELMwfQi/ZXtSKiQ4cAFjk5NmThq4JprXE7TvwahI=; b=WZT4vGAwkC4g78j9hk+WyW+M/K/Lc2hKTKaDvaxVHwPrHvAc/PvTwkTYQ9cJGfxto9iYlQOF4phKox+eev3dFoa1DHeujufDvHy61kThFQr4ABhG7/dYYynbAJ6IIkPcajbVvE8WOAFNnKLweDmK14MVD4+WIhxYLc0cUeOVBi6inlSkUVnj5kPMDWHKsonyZxHh/g3My7T/PnXGBQMFB78pgCmYvSqHhMFQR0Aj+jxDd1BlOUKUp2c38UKXUtOT5N7j+Ixt61TnTi+DnL5hxXJIDR9/m15tMldnxwPkvRMHahl1snKwyD1M0e+mK+Zob7+tYF2QttrXUpPJHB5qGQ==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=evequefou.be; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=evequefou.be; dkim=pass header.d=evequefou.be; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=evequefou.be; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=OWtELMwfQi/ZXtSKiQ4cAFjk5NmThq4JprXE7TvwahI=; b=YxeBw1BNGnhCvblbX7sReQ0xRTRF5NXtc0UHMTO969IEB8yJTs8NhNcrjjGoCGslbXehsNQIxqPYq0ZsKcldQJJZyf8WC/XOs+jqOdMS76A7hNTSo+O5hO+HAkV5VOEIhh98nUrfFe7Hp6rYi4Dxu8NvvvP4HkmWl1sZ+7+TSB0=
Received: from DM3PPF6A4A7648C.namprd22.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:f:fc00::e28) by DS1PR22MB5858.namprd22.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:8:1ec::15) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.9160.18; Wed, 1 Oct 2025 19:35:03 +0000
Received: from DM3PPF6A4A7648C.namprd22.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::6118:fd35:c6b8:8f9d]) by DM3PPF6A4A7648C.namprd22.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::6118:fd35:c6b8:8f9d%2]) with mapi id 15.20.9160.010; Wed, 1 Oct 2025 19:35:03 +0000
From: Mike Bishop <mbishop@evequefou.be>
To: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Mike Bishop's Abstain on draft-ietf-bfd-optimizing-authentication-33: (with COMMENT)
Thread-Topic: Mike Bishop's Abstain on draft-ietf-bfd-optimizing-authentication-33: (with COMMENT)
Thread-Index: AQHcKBeSvJqcl0b6TUKkU2I3tXVAZLSZBwIAgBMi2oCAAZrrjQ==
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2025 19:35:02 +0000
Message-ID: <1efb224f-eb83-4e8e-a39b-956e3e213adf@evequefou.be>
References: <175814345395.1963738.13758757355782665155@dt-datatracker-f7c8fdcb7-pjx77> <24ca082c-de95-4c75-a9b2-7b89710b1cc9@pfrc.org> <443CB785-CD71-4D77-99D8-652DDCAE71FD@pfrc.org>
In-Reply-To: <443CB785-CD71-4D77-99D8-652DDCAE71FD@pfrc.org>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
authentication-results: dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;dmarc=none action=none header.from=evequefou.be;
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM3PPF6A4A7648C:EE_|DS1PR22MB5858:EE_
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: dcb4db94-8fa5-441b-52f7-08de01219e03
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;ARA:13230040|366016|376014|1800799024|8096899003|7053199007|38070700021;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255;CTRY:;LANG:en;SCL:1;SRV:;IPV:NLI;SFV:NSPM;H:DM3PPF6A4A7648C.namprd22.prod.outlook.com;PTR:;CAT:NONE;SFS:(13230040)(366016)(376014)(1800799024)(8096899003)(7053199007)(38070700021);DIR:OUT;SFP:1102;
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: 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
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_1efb224feb834e8ea39b956e3e213adfevequefoube_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: evequefou.be
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DM3PPF6A4A7648C.namprd22.prod.outlook.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: dcb4db94-8fa5-441b-52f7-08de01219e03
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 01 Oct 2025 19:35:02.9671 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 41eaf50b-882d-47eb-8c4c-0b5b76a9da8f
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: Jksi58c11Y/JlJB0A9gcLOBDKQygvwZcEGgPUUC19djgpDjSu5uyTeB4I18kucdXmKfbJcbTWk3a45R+0mmvKw==
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DS1PR22MB5858
Message-ID-Hash: AF2MARFWE6TZ62UUMTK4FOSSFRYQV4JI
X-Message-ID-Hash: AF2MARFWE6TZ62UUMTK4FOSSFRYQV4JI
X-MailFrom: mbishop@evequefou.be
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-rtg-bfd.ietf.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
CC: "draft-ietf-bfd-optimizing-authentication@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bfd-optimizing-authentication@ietf.org>, "bfd-chairs@ietf.org" <bfd-chairs@ietf.org>, "rtg-bfd@ietf. org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>, Reshad Rahman <reshad@yahoo.com>, Reshad Rahman <rrahman@cisco.com>
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
List-Id: "RTG Area: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection" <rtg-bfd.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtg-bfd/t0hB63eHwwIyN9Ua2vfudnnWuY4>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/rtg-bfd>
List-Help: <mailto:rtg-bfd-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:rtg-bfd-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:rtg-bfd-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:rtg-bfd-leave@ietf.org>

Modulo the use of the term "strong," which I think you're already pursuing with Deb, I think that's an improvement. Thanks.

Sent from Nine<http://www.9folders.com/>
________________________________
From: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2025 3:04 PM
To: Mike Bishop; The IESG
Cc: draft-ietf-bfd-optimizing-authentication@ietf.org; bfd-chairs@ietf.org; rtg-bfd@ietf. org; Reshad Rahman; Reshad Rahman
Subject: Re: Mike Bishop's Abstain on draft-ietf-bfd-optimizing-authentication-33: (with COMMENT)

Mike,

Coming back to this after my break:


> On Sep 18, 2025, at 10:50 AM, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:
> On 9/17/25 17:10, Mike Bishop via Datatracker wrote:
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> COMMENT:
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>> I also support Gorry's DISCUSS on "optimized". I understand the reasoning, but
>> that term doesn't make it clear what property is being improved without loss of
>> function. In Section 10, it even asserts that this "enhances the ability to
>> authenticate a BFD session" when in fact this explicitly *reduces* the
>> authentication of the session. Perhaps this should be "lower effort" instead?
>> Maybe even "lazy", if that's not seen as too judgmental?


I've queued the following minor change in the abstract.  Hopefully by reordering the sentences and explicitly adding the word optimization on what is now the second sentence addresses your concerns?


This document describes an experimental optimization to BFD Authentication.
This optimization enables BFD to scale better when there is a desire to use
strong authentication. It provides a procedure where BFD significant changes
require strong authentication and permits the majority of BFD Control Packets
to use a less computationally intensive authentication mechanism.

Note that I see no further requested actions not otherwise covered by Deb's DISCUSS remaining in your feedback.

-- Jeff