IETF Logo Mail Archive

[saag] Re: post quantum guidance draft

Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> Mon, 01 December 2025 18:36 UTC

Return-Path: <ekr@rtfm.com>
X-Original-To: saag@mail2.ietf.org
Delivered-To: saag@mail2.ietf.org
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F9DD9370FE6 for <saag@mail2.ietf.org>; Mon, 1 Dec 2025 10:36:41 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ietf.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.897
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: mail2.ietf.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=rtfm-com.20230601.gappssmtp.com
Received: from mail2.ietf.org ([166.84.6.31]) by localhost (mail2.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hkcVmefsiVTF for <saag@mail2.ietf.org>; Mon, 1 Dec 2025 10:36:41 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-yw1-x112d.google.com (mail-yw1-x112d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::112d]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 56113936F669 for <saag@ietf.org>; Mon, 1 Dec 2025 10:27:34 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-yw1-x112d.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-78802ac22abso46601237b3.3 for <saag@ietf.org>; Mon, 01 Dec 2025 10:27:34 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rtfm-com.20230601.gappssmtp.com; s=20230601; t=1764613648; x=1765218448; darn=ietf.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=P0Z/4QLZBniDxoDMFfyUEO1xK18rGHMRyV+YljXXZLc=; b=gWlheTRUibSQR9o/L2vynr3ePefILJcT8s2N7RIJpoXbVs+AG1dnZJsoY6ZCMRLOyM h1zH1rdn96/xwPjxK5Mh10FcitUMeSfA36gX1y7nHeP7t25bNTz97Xo4czEc/2o3UovU lfbVTGJ0k9CMkgJ0rVIC4U/jEqoZcvF5nIVrVxppHvZ9TYKb02Z7czMoIFQf1ALCaFGI pcTk/qVLvXcp1pnSOqKSflsdF8otob/7b4pRCX4tZ00XL/SzrjKVBX9Wh30vmKd4S210 qnYvmRvbExaTHAcuQzfPUCqOJG/JWKhaFyZv5E/BT9nQAaTcNIAYctgbu4RXUanf20Hz Y+GA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1764613648; x=1765218448; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-gg:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=P0Z/4QLZBniDxoDMFfyUEO1xK18rGHMRyV+YljXXZLc=; b=XEacXyY1xvAy4M4VtK1R0kZDFKQ4rjBH1bodyFiTlyNG7nKQ9I33aVaOh4W8gNsVUq X8+28AaQkfNMMLxtXV0c4wbt+mkHbeEzfDXNGcPng99uCbdMDCeVnL3/rQz2FgepNeeP dgW1vsDdLG9N7wVUsgzBHLFdDM07j29SdIp4XGIrod9v04XVk9QdxVyZOCLfaj2bGsFl DewTUNFwjqbqCcGy74OwFKaLYo0zBCgo4f7hzs4q+ez14RrSfA6JWmgtFI+bfg3Jwy6J jJe4RE0MEbMAFtfRxAzGN6j2cWOXnuIbLKVhy8b9IcEPXTSBSy+IGWsmOjjWsA0tW/i4 iqlA==
X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCWr5SYu6NAx6+R7GHtE32kwIK5d7qJLD9vyMqiXlsWhKLIPKScDmckDg3ZBV7PdsB8PSeHR@ietf.org
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzVlsuo1xTdp9C3QaYqJpxeZG1e8kD86XJ0izUcgyyfYMvngLvg GVCBHwNoAnnrkpGyP8XGg3YN52dcBRVWjtYmgRcb0W8AXKNjU0NDA+IeipUYomF+mym6boqfsBp F4l2mgpsGe4P0qNjOwx4DLQcKkyup5r5yXUBI2rNd6w==
X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncvDZWZS5N26TCxfIPs8klJZTvgY8Ft19GIIifRhcZjZVRZXZ6QGPdawUWTaxQk cT5YCPzE+ktu2vSf/SeWgqO54Gv3zMLajokoIudJvxiR4CoB3WQnwKXGqWNtHTxgyKTZJs+Mlwc dqyxxnRxJL1FK/FdNcrsJV2AHG9v1P0a/qpMW+YwR+DMBOSbictwespVQ0uGJv5HhS5DPoiZoWt TtpxntBbeCDajWGH9az8VoPLTp7CCEYp423/0wYcT1uc179WhbKfVW7/9au/nrnzrMJdD69VVs+ ECOU8Of0rLKECgB2gGm8tKdeEfcpVLZWf6XB2CzSbnhA0pt/gwhTlGL7ErGl0xOIdSi+1A+Czt9 T6rNC1iotNdEDmiQITU+L
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGYqIdA54IWJKlPMPWLcTVa5vBIvNWnYsTZVPcKM44WdN3rXwtTwVJiRWluRCokTHw7949eqPoKu8jx2Erb7EE=
X-Received: by 2002:a05:690c:4a0f:b0:784:8286:fe07 with SMTP id 00721157ae682-78ab6f19db3mr226865677b3.36.1764613647862; Mon, 01 Dec 2025 10:27:27 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <75412ad7-8485-4044-bc6c-c705e9272158@cs.tcd.ie> <CABcZeBO_89VtND0-K-guY0N1riO3edYQkArwZAcr1wJ0mpo2VQ@mail.gmail.com> <5f1f3a9e-21d0-4ded-bdc0-b70ee431f68e@cs.tcd.ie> <CABcZeBNMT2Osr4wMTX4Zv+MP-ojVcY2Wr3ux=kM-ZcuvKFKXGg@mail.gmail.com> <SN7PR14MB64921262A8157C872EA0018F83DBA@SN7PR14MB6492.namprd14.prod.outlook.com> <GVXPR07MB967893556CA2349C1C0D4E9289DBA@GVXPR07MB9678.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <CAOp4FwTc2oGBn+ehNxy1Ao0qVWFdoV5fATsZLph=Mu6pPW9Y_w@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAOp4FwTc2oGBn+ehNxy1Ao0qVWFdoV5fATsZLph=Mu6pPW9Y_w@mail.gmail.com>
From: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2025 10:26:51 -0800
X-Gm-Features: AWmQ_bna8FoxpqTjkHUngRDpTvKV74rJ8sIwRWic1bB8kwQNwIX5VpaTP97MGPk
Message-ID: <CABcZeBOwqza4aaHa7QA2cDTkq2wcR_uTCW_0000f8LD-s8FDhA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Loganaden Velvindron <loganaden@gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a59ff80644e821a3"
Message-ID-Hash: 2EFXITSJ7YTSC3NM6X7MUPY67SYHHDDH
X-Message-ID-Hash: 2EFXITSJ7YTSC3NM6X7MUPY67SYHHDDH
X-MailFrom: ekr@rtfm.com
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-saag.ietf.org-0; header-match-saag.ietf.org-1; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
CC: John Mattsson <john.mattsson=40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Tim Hollebeek <tim.hollebeek=40digicert.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "saag@ietf.org" <saag@ietf.org>
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
Subject: [saag] Re: post quantum guidance draft
List-Id: Security Area Advisory Group <saag.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/saag/Cf3pz-qfR7SatdzJ8sNCGbX2OZQ>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/saag>
List-Help: <mailto:saag-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:saag-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:saag@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:saag-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:saag-leave@ietf.org>

On Mon, Dec 1, 2025 at 10:11 AM Loganaden Velvindron <loganaden@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Mon, 1 Dec 2025 at 22:09, John Mattsson
> <john.mattsson=40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
> >
> > I agree with most EKR says. I read the draft again. It is unclear to me,
> which problem the draft want to solve, and what the assumptions are for
> making the recommendation in 3.2 that I don't agree with. Any
> recommendations will be age very quickly so I think a BCP is wrong.
> >
> What are the changes that can be made to the draft that address those
> issues ?
>

This framing ("how do we make this draft acceptable") is exactly what I am
objecting to.

It's not up to those of us who are skeptical about the entire project to
propose a set of changes to make the draft less objectionable, because the
draft need not be IETF work at all.

-Ekr

v2.46.0 | Report a Bug | By Email | System Status