[Seat] Re: Summary of informal gathering 02.02.

Paul Wouters <paul.wouters@aiven.io> Mon, 02 February 2026 14:46 UTC

Return-Path: <paul.wouters@aiven.io>
X-Original-To: seat@mail2.ietf.org
Delivered-To: seat@mail2.ietf.org
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D51EB0A18EC for <seat@mail2.ietf.org>; Mon, 2 Feb 2026 06:46:12 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ietf.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.099
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: mail2.ietf.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=aiven.io
Received: from mail2.ietf.org ([166.84.6.31]) by localhost (mail2.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gtjNUZu2Wi8n for <seat@mail2.ietf.org>; Mon, 2 Feb 2026 06:46:12 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-ed1-x533.google.com (mail-ed1-x533.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::533]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0C0C8B0A18E0 for <seat@ietf.org>; Mon, 2 Feb 2026 06:46:11 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-ed1-x533.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-658d54197d3so7501304a12.0 for <seat@ietf.org>; Mon, 02 Feb 2026 06:46:11 -0800 (PST)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1770043571; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; b=My6UB0n6YHqSQpiF/HW694wWKqQTBxPfQzWcKPLld5Zq4LlPIFGHe9nRK8qrqjaaCR D9pmd5R2d35+H6DSIg9rL5QorGfi+3SoGzpsr9QAoMlIQYRaloKHN3cnR4m1Kjkp10Fa lbLk90JKRd9CLxMWObucUiw4UN1IsJIf/1Ws6Q0s3YuRAJfcmHeAFySGhkcCak8qtIUN l4qZbmBZom7J6YePddDV1Xdfas2NjwCatRlzKcBJB4CY6LTjnHCbtiyMDgXGEolFYv/B ssMN4XQJ+nz5aD61zhoXGbc8dv22QPPAHbhKuk39flimubJbtBsLFPnbCsc3lpL0SevU Yahw==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:dkim-signature; bh=P8koR83wbErKatSyT3Y07wNDL98KNtV59WEUAm/Uhss=; fh=ZF0dW/4RxiHfPjtOatT76H8Ly2jYzx9d01m8yy0KHlo=; b=XJClNFVr1Isz/O6bQFbLRPg4gFx5745+q1RQmsMi6Ihh2eZRlpwr8Zkm6NkYzIE6Lj ptRIZmO+GqT+SVFwhuKqCKIq20ASYuDBfPnk5SjZKhXArG9GFRPD2XxN5E7Gxf4I81uV KjtdnXevjUh6vPtJBKsxDOR5c/ftntcV8YHZgEEW6y3n3aBEslTcF1o2oT8RkYpd9QKT fkDAUYWgCjoUZGS+qPhwg939YDS30YzZBwRNd1fGRQ/b/uJDs3wrjhnH90QHwkhLkp/Z ho4bDVTJ84kQ07MzC5NjFPVVa0qpektSj3Xrep/n2P9ot12mh9WaKcH94kf0VKWQpV+J 1OdA==; darn=ietf.org
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aiven.io; s=google; t=1770043571; x=1770648371; darn=ietf.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=P8koR83wbErKatSyT3Y07wNDL98KNtV59WEUAm/Uhss=; b=lF8aq1TYlBIGJ+BiD6zj6lyiiR9vCuPY2TXV5nzzfYlDyGvkNXJfi17CZsXBAZKQkp gWYP8rFzj2rE0OgWVp6ORrJZF+whItc60O23INIHl+p1GQSGy6VgYZDYBZfmELd5oaGp Zy4hQ795Bt6/9Fsl1wrAZxNgeqlB50sCz3BJI=
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1770043571; x=1770648371; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-gg:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=P8koR83wbErKatSyT3Y07wNDL98KNtV59WEUAm/Uhss=; b=dezdHI9M0+O7PHr5v/RxwUmsfhFzFI+T+moAmNUG87n2hsE+Eeo/vO5WOYMugF0DGJ G3rb/JBhkeX68ULDey2nHDByEWkIERGOaZ/Eh9J5JWmwKgNDH9LoXaIWRLc4j24dG/2u K5zOc9E2nbt9p1lh3T9kDyfNFrRtzd30GpW4xtueXOtqS2wBGchYUgoIMXLP1Ygjs9XT e7x7H1t2JN3DnjD0hqYYDosZ9ivNSNv8/XX2p15koA8DVJwPuEG7T+TBhymDG5hYdZ/a mm/dmO4L4BBQtB/+TwPveczsgOc5gHhX2TUP0vCM5tHot9BlzCw8JfeCFx/92fGyiTSY bemw==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxxoBgmmKlDe3/LL3EDAlLfJMS/4OnQvdbP4OdRBt15Lxu8Km+k inDEaYc4AzsDyK4n4Ii23Ed0ZFqc0U5Spvxv46nPw0EdjxEUNBYiC9aI5Ti0DMD8SQ2XggIPIFO CB9ee4cW1gWeiAfhrx1RCekMM+MohHciUBP2UNFAbmw==
X-Gm-Gg: AZuq6aIqj5g0EH65U4SFOkaD7YJfZrvlQNyeReBKsCcodrDjeV2BWIjas8EE1bPuiE0 d+HEH8uVBt9PX9zEwM0pRbu20GECEjRiL7aasAIxTvVm2lwaupLJVMW6fHbo1yufHez6Mb3G9N9 NzfPFMccgS/z13iIuvjDWDJDhEnmwXUtfW7eYDC6Cbw6tbvmBCadpC3EVeW0dUzWi96ZY1Lskpc qIyWJoHPPtxPkvJI5t0ZYCJch+dq/BjbEQ2wmF9B7IOkeF9n5oaZwJ1F+qL50x6ZI6Z9ODPglYd FYJlh7ULiBL2Q0oBMvSzqoJpgjeMXGTh2dcB5EHyjCr8wczfxlXdTfQ=
X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:9805:b0:b87:c9a:58d2 with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b8dff8120e3mr681834866b.62.1770043570687; Mon, 02 Feb 2026 06:46:10 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <acde56dd-d500-4fd7-9d8d-54f2366e0027@tu-dresden.de>
In-Reply-To: <acde56dd-d500-4fd7-9d8d-54f2366e0027@tu-dresden.de>
From: Paul Wouters <paul.wouters@aiven.io>
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2026 09:45:59 -0500
X-Gm-Features: AZwV_QhPxpg0epZW8kfWJwa4izJt1DD7tBeu1a9RWG9ootGW_ty_kssMUCq-4aE
Message-ID: <CAGL5yWZF=Z-kNWRf1u2k9NMe5FnEAgonFvjt2vNiy7NVym4iVw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Muhammad Usama Sardar <muhammad_usama.sardar@tu-dresden.de>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000044b1e40649d862bd"
Message-ID-Hash: JUOA4ZIKEF6F7AVGP4XONN4WWCBXJH3N
X-Message-ID-Hash: JUOA4ZIKEF6F7AVGP4XONN4WWCBXJH3N
X-MailFrom: paul.wouters@aiven.io
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
CC: "seat@ietf.org" <seat@ietf.org>
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
Subject: [Seat] Re: Summary of informal gathering 02.02.
List-Id: "Secure Evidence and Attestation Transport (SEAT) WG" <seat.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/seat/AyeC6VVp8FK98eAGXDStytGxKbA>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/seat>
List-Help: <mailto:seat-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:seat-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:seat@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:seat-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:seat-leave@ietf.org>

On Mon, Feb 2, 2026 at 5:19 AM Muhammad Usama Sardar <
muhammad_usama.sardar@tu-dresden.de> wrote:

>
>    1. I continued discussion of the work with Viacheslav and Jean-Marie
>    for post-handshake attestation in CCC Attestation SIG meeting last week
>    (recording [0]). There is good support for post-handshake attestation in
>    CCC Attestation SIG. Edgeless Systems -- currently using intra-handshake
>    attestation -- has expressed clear statement to move to post-handshake
>    attestation. We have informed Cocos AI folks -- the only other ones (to our
>    knowledge) using intra-handshake attestation -- that their design is broken.
>
>
Of course people picked post-handshake attestation because they had no
choice. Or designed their own intra-handshake, but couldn't do it properly
without an IETF standard. So this situation does not surprise me. It should
not be used to diminish the desire and goals of a real intra-handshake
solution though.

Paul