Re: [secdir] [OAUTH-WG] ** OAuth Tutorial & OAuth Security Session **

Anthony Nadalin <tonynad@microsoft.com> Wed, 10 November 2010 06:03 UTC

Return-Path: <tonynad@microsoft.com>
X-Original-To: secdir@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: secdir@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F13E3A68C8; Tue, 9 Nov 2010 22:03:34 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -10.599
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ed2jPVsD-p8p; Tue, 9 Nov 2010 22:03:34 -0800 (PST)
Received: from smtp.microsoft.com (mailb.microsoft.com [131.107.115.215]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EDF53A68C6; Tue, 9 Nov 2010 22:03:34 -0800 (PST)
Received: from TK5EX14HUBC103.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.54.86.9) by TK5-EXGWY-E802.partners.extranet.microsoft.com (10.251.56.168) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.176.0; Tue, 9 Nov 2010 22:03:48 -0800
Received: from TK5EX14MBXC117.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([169.254.8.138]) by TK5EX14HUBC103.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.86.9]) with mapi id 14.01.0255.003; Tue, 9 Nov 2010 22:03:48 -0800
From: Anthony Nadalin <tonynad@microsoft.com>
To: "Richard L. Barnes" <rbarnes@bbn.com>, "torsten@lodderstedt.net" <torsten@lodderstedt.net>
Thread-Topic: [secdir] [OAUTH-WG] ** OAuth Tutorial & OAuth Security Session **
Thread-Index: AQHLf+vNz+Zyzs3OwkSCnvjMrh08w5NqOX4w
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 06:03:47 +0000
Message-ID: <180155C5EA10854997314CA5E063D18FEE90B8@TK5EX14MBXC117.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
References: <30C8090C-AD0E-4D2A-8F26-6EFC52DCDD9D@gmx.net><4CD73075.8050408@lodderstedt.net><180155C5EA10854997314CA5E063D18FECBAC9@TK5EX14MBXC113.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> <1893623701-1289290076-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-776340369-@bda356.bisx.produk.on.blackberry> <4CD90C14.2060803@bbn.com>
In-Reply-To: <4CD90C14.2060803@bbn.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-originating-ip: [157.54.123.12]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 09 Nov 2010 22:04:46 -0800
Cc: "abfab@ietf.org" <abfab@ietf.org>, "rai@ietf.org" <rai@ietf.org>, "ietf@ietf.org" <ietf@ietf.org>, "secdir@ietf.org" <secdir@ietf.org>, "websec@ietf.org" <websec@ietf.org>, "xmpp@ietf.org" <xmpp@ietf.org>, "kitten@ietf.org" <kitten@ietf.org>, "iab@iab.org Board" <iab@iab.org>, "iesg@ietf.org" <iesg@ietf.org>, "Tschofenig, Hannes" <Hannes.Tschofenig@gmx.net>, "oauth@ietf.org" <oauth@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [secdir] [OAUTH-WG] ** OAuth Tutorial & OAuth Security Session **
X-BeenThere: secdir@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Security Area Directorate <secdir.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/secdir>, <mailto:secdir-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/secdir>
List-Post: <mailto:secdir@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:secdir-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/secdir>, <mailto:secdir-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 06:03:34 -0000

Issue here is that guarantees (and what you want as a guarantee may not be what somebody else wants) can vary depending on scenario and deployment.

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard L. Barnes [mailto:rbarnes@bbn.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 12:54 AM
To: torsten@lodderstedt.net
Cc: Anthony Nadalin; Tschofenig, Hannes; abfab@ietf.org; rai@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org; websec@ietf.org; xmpp@ietf.org; kitten@ietf.org; iab@iab.org Board; iesg@ietf.org; oauth@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [secdir] [OAUTH-WG] ** OAuth Tutorial & OAuth Security Session **

I would say that the security considerations should be based on a model of OAuth.  Start with a model of the protocol and the guarantees you want, then explain how to use security mechanisms to achieve those guarantees.

I promised Hannes today to do a review of the current document (which I admit I haven't read) and start on some security considerations from that perspective.  So expect that in the next few weeks.

--Richard




On 11/9/10 4:07 PM, torsten@lodderstedt.net wrote:
> We think the security considerations should be based on a threat model of OAuth. But a complete threat model would blow up the spec.
>
> We therefore aim to produce a separate security document (informational I-D/RFC) covering threat model as well as security design and considerations. The security considerations section of the core spec can then be distilled from this document.
>
> Regards,
> Torsten.
> Gesendet mit BlackBerry(r) Webmail von Telekom Deutschland
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Anthony Nadalin<tonynad@microsoft.com>;
> Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 01:54:57
> To: Torsten Lodderstedt<torsten@lodderstedt.net>;; Hannes 
> Tschofenig<hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net>;
> Cc: abfab@ietf.org<abfab@ietf.org>; rai@ietf.org<rai@ietf.org>; 
> ietf@ietf.org<ietf@ietf.org>; secdir@ietf.org<secdir@ietf.org>; 
> websec@ietf.org<websec@ietf.org>; xmpp@ietf.org<xmpp@ietf.org>; 
> kitten@ietf.org<kitten@ietf.org>; iab@iab.org Board<iab@iab.org>;; 
> iesg@ietf.org<iesg@ietf.org>; oauth@ietf.org<oauth@ietf.org>
> Subject: RE: [OAUTH-WG] ** OAuth Tutorial&  OAuth Security Session **
>
> I was looking for less of an analysis and more of considerations (of the current flows and actors), I'm not sure how to adapt what you have done to actually fit in the current specification, was your thought that you would produce a separate security analysis document?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: oauth-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf 
> Of Torsten Lodderstedt
> Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2010 3:04 PM
> To: Hannes Tschofenig
> Cc: abfab@ietf.org; rai@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org; 
> websec@ietf.org; xmpp@ietf.org; kitten@ietf.org; iab@iab.org Board; 
> iesg@ietf.org; oauth@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] ** OAuth Tutorial&  OAuth Security Session **
>
> Hi all,
>
> Mark McGloin and me have been working on OAuth 2.0 security considerations for a couple of weeks now. Since we both cannot attend the IETF-79 meetings, we would like to provide the WG with information regarding the current status of our work. I therefore uploaded a_preliminary_ version of our working document to the WG's wiki at http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/oauth/trac/attachment/wiki/SecurityConsiderations/oauth20_seccons_20101107.pdf.
> The focus of this version was on consolidating previous work as well as results of mailing list discussions and start working towards a rigorous threat model.
>
> Please give us feedback.
>
> regards,
> Torsten.
>
> Am 07.11.2010 03:22, schrieb Hannes Tschofenig:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> please consider attending the following two meetings!
>>
>> ** OAuth Security Session **
>>
>> 	* Date: Monday, 13:00-15:00
>> 	* Location: IAB breakout room (Jade 2)
>> 	* Contact: Hannes Tschofenig hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net The security 
>> consideration section of OAuth 2.0 (draft -10) is still empty. Hence, we would like to put some time aside to discuss what security threats, requirements, and countermeasures need to be described. We will use the Monday, November 8, 1300-1500 slot to have a  discussion session.
>>
>> As a starting point I suggest to look at the following documents:
>>
>> 	* http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/oauth/trac/wiki/SecurityConsiderations
>> 	* http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/oauth/trac/wiki/SignaturesWhy
>> 	*
>> http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-tschofenig-oauth-signature-thoughts-00.
>> txt
>>
>> Note: If you are unfamiliar with OAuth then the OAuth tutorial session might be more suitable for you!
>>
>>
>>
>> ** OAuth Tutorial **
>>
>> 	* Date: Wednesday, 19:30 (after the plenary)
>> 	* Location: IAB breakout room (Jade 2)
>> 	* Contact: Hannes Tschofenig hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net OAuth allows 
>> a user to grant a third-party Web site or application access to their 
>> resources, without necessarily revealing their credentials, or even 
>> their identity. The OAuth working group, see 
>> http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/oauth/charter/, is currently trying to 
>> finalize their main specification, namely OAuth v2:
>> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-oauth-v2/
>>
>> Based on the positive response at the last IETF meeting (in
>> Maastricht) we decided to hold another OAuth tutorial, namely on 
>> *Wednesday, starting at 19:30 (after the IETF Operations and 
>> Administration Plenary) till about 21:00. (Note: I had to switch the 
>> day because of the social event!)
>>
>> It is helpful to read through the documents available int he working group but not required.
>>
>> Up-to-date information can be found here:
>> http://www.ietf.org/registration/MeetingWiki/wiki/79bofs
>>
>> Ciao
>> Hannes
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OAuth mailing list
>> OAuth@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>
> _______________________________________________
> OAuth mailing list
> OAuth@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>
> _______________________________________________
> secdir mailing list
> secdir@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/secdir