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Re: [Curdle] draft-ietf-curdle-ssh-modp-dh-sha2 & draft-ietf-curdle-ssh-kex-sha2

"denis bider \(Bitvise\)" <ietf-ssh3@denisbider.com> Wed, 14 September 2016 05:27 UTC

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Message-ID: <22FEB0196536431E86029DD43534D1B3@Khan>
From: "denis bider (Bitvise)" <ietf-ssh3@denisbider.com>
To: Damien Miller <djm@mindrot.org>, "Mark D. Baushke" <mdb@juniper.net>
Cc: Curdle <curdle@ietf.org>, IETF SSH <ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org>, Max Horn <postbox@quendi.de>
References: <41049.1473653352@eng-mail01.juniper.net> <alpine.BSO.2.20.1609140340320.58455@natsu.mindrot.org> <38090.1473794513@eng-mail01.juniper.net>
In-Reply-To: <38090.1473794513@eng-mail01.juniper.net>
Subject: Re: [Curdle] draft-ietf-curdle-ssh-modp-dh-sha2 & draft-ietf-curdle-ssh-kex-sha2
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2016 20:18:49 -0600
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According to this page (great work by Max Horn):

http://ssh-comparison.quendi.de/comparison/kex.html

ecmqv-sha2 is listed with zero known implementations.

Note that this might be inaccurate – ext-info-s is also listed as having no implementations, whereas it has at least ours (Bitvise SSH Server 7.xx). But this is a new development (first released a few months ago), whereas RFC 5656 dates back to 2009. It might be safe to say that any implementations of ecmqv-sha2 are indeed very secretive.

denis


From: Mark D. Baushke 
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 13:21
To: Damien Miller 
Cc: Curdle ; IETF SSH 
Subject: Re: [Curdle] draft-ietf-curdle-ssh-modp-dh-sha2 & draft-ietf-curdle-ssh-kex-sha2

Damien writes:

> Has anyone ever implemented this? AFAIK the motivation for this was
> MQV being included in NSA Suite B at the time, but it was subsequently
> dropped. IMO if nobody is using it then it should be recommended
> against. I.e. SHOULD NOT

Hmmm... ecmqv-sha2 is mentioned in defined in RFC 5656 and mentioned in
RFC 6187. I see a JIRA request to add it to MINA SSHD, but I am unaware of
any implementations of it. 

I have no problems moving ecmqv-sha2 to SHOULD NOT if no one has
implemented it. However, I guess I should ask that of the ietf-ssh list
first.

> > gss-group14-sha1-*                    RFC4462       SHOULD
> > gss-group14-sha256-*                  new-modp      SHOULD
> 
> IMO these two should be MAY. Most implementations don't support
> GSSAPI key exchange at all.

Perhaps I need a paragraph like this one:

     If GSS-API methods are available, then the RFC4462 REQUIRED
     gss-group14-sha1-* method SHOULD be retained for compatibility
     with older Secure Shell implementations and the
     gss-groups14-sha256-* method SHOULD be added as for "sha1".

-- Mark

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