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Re: [Sframe] WGLC for draft-ietf-sframe-enc-04

Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx> Mon, 06 November 2023 16:17 UTC

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From: Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx>
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2023 11:17:17 -0500
Message-ID: <CAL02cgTZVCJGw3Eaeitnwr1no1yi-rS0f0ZngQzhd0_reQF0tg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Youenn Fablet <youenn=40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Cc: Martin Thomson <mt@lowentropy.net>, sframe@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [Sframe] WGLC for draft-ietf-sframe-enc-04
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Thanks, Youenn.

With regard to metadata: Given that we're about to finalize the spec, the
time for "feature at risk" has passed.  We need to decide whether it's in
or it's out.

Personally I would be inclined to keep it.  This is the classic
"proactively add an extension point" (which inherently leaves it
underspecified) vs. "YAGNI / add the extension point when it's needed"
(thus requiring a code change later) argument.  My inclination for the
former is based on this being a very simple extension point that doesn't
change the behavior of the protocol much.  And it seems like there are some
things like frame marking that might benefit from being bound into the
metadata.

A comparable story from MLS/MIMI: We added an `authenticated_data` field to
the MLS encrypted message structure, which has largely the same trade-offs
we have here (except it *also* consumes space in the message).  When it was
added, there wasn't an explicit use case for it, but it looks like MIMI is
going to make a fair bit of use.

On Mon, Nov 6, 2023 at 10:34 AM Youenn Fablet <youenn=
40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

> The document looks ready to advance.
>
> About metadata, it is considered a feature at risk. It might still be a
> bit early to decide whether this is a useful addition. How are we planning
> to deal with it in the future?
>
> Thanks,
> Youenn
>
> On 23 Oct 2023, at 01:08, Martin Thomson <mt@lowentropy.net> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> This starts a 3 week working group last call for draft-ietf-sframe-enc-04.
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sframe-enc/
>
> We've been somewhat slow about this, but progress has been steady and the
> discussions have all been very productive.  The editors tell me that this
> is ready.  Please let us know whether you agree.
>
> This WGLC will end at about the end of the upcoming IETF meeting.
>
> Cheers,
> Martin
>
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