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Re: [Sframe] Key ratchting

Emad Omara <emad.omara@gmail.com> Thu, 06 October 2022 16:10 UTC

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From: Emad Omara <emad.omara@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2022 09:09:49 -0700
Message-ID: <CADkVUQvOpNT_i+MJA=GSB4NiNMYRh62gOTmzLp=XsnWjmK039Q@mail.gmail.com>
To: Sergio Garcia Murillo <sergio.garcia.murillo@gmail.com>
Cc: Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx>, Emad Omara <eomara@apple.com>, sframe@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [Sframe] Key ratchting
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On Thu, Oct 6, 2022 at 6:55 AM Sergio Garcia Murillo <
sergio.garcia.murillo@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Oct 6, 2022 at 2:40 PM Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx> wrote:
>
>>
>> 1. Instead of allowing every sender to use the whole KID space, you could
>> segment the KID space as in the MLS-based case (so that KID would indicate
>> sender as well as generation)
>>
>
> That was my second question, would the SFrame stack need to know the
> sender for each KID to be able to "expire" a previous KID for the same
> sender? If so, should that information be passed in the SFrame API or
> should we carry the sender Id also on the SFrame header? (The later would
> allow to identify the sender of each packet)
>
> 2. Instead of ratcheting the keys directly, there should probably be a
>> ratchet_secret that gets ratcheted, and from which keys are derived.  This
>> would avoid the keys being used with two algorithms (HMAC and AEAD).
>>
>
> I think @Emad Omara <eomara@apple.com> should be the right person to
> answer that question.
>
I think that makes sense to ratchet a root secret and from it derive new
encryption and authentication keys

>
> Best regards
> Sergio
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