Re: [sidr] Stephen Farrell's Discuss on draft-ietf-sidr-publication-10: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> Tue, 31 January 2017 01:20 UTC
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To: Rob Austein <sra@hactrn.net>
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From: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
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Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 01:20:21 +0000
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Cc: Chris Morrow <morrowc@ops-netman.net>, sidr-chairs@ietf.org, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, sidr@ietf.org, draft-ietf-sidr-publication@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [sidr] Stephen Farrell's Discuss on draft-ietf-sidr-publication-10: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Hi Rob, On 31/01/17 00:58, Rob Austein wrote: > At Wed, 18 Jan 2017 16:08:24 -0800, Stephen Farrell wrote: > ... >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> DISCUSS: >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Why is sha-256 hardcoded? > > Real answer: because it's hard-coded in RFC 6486 and we were trying to > use the same hashing algorithm for manifests, this, and RRDP > (draft-ietf-sidr-delta-protocol). Hmm. I don't see sha-256 mentioned in 6486 never mind hardcoded. Is there some indirection I'm missing? (But this may be moot, see below.) > >> You could easily include a hash alg-id even as an option and in >> that way get algorithm agility, as called for by BCP201. (Or you >> could use something like ni URIs but that's a bit of a self-serving >> suggestion;-) Anyway, what's the plan for replacing sha-256 here? >> (This is a bit of a subset of Alissa's discuss with which I agree.) >> >> One possible way to handle this here is to identify sha-256 as >> the default hash algorithm but to re-define the ABNF for hash >> to allow an alg-id of some sort to be included there. Or have >> some generic versioning text somewhere that calls for a >> version bump if sha-256 is not to be used. > > I had been assuming that an algorithm change would be a protocol > version bump. Given that the server is probably storing these hashes > in a database, changing the algorithm is probably a bit more involved > than just changing the bits on the wire. WRT clearing the discuss, if the draft said that then I'd be happy to clear. (Meaning that I don't care how the spec achieves alg. agility so long as it does somehow.) Cheers, S. PS: I'm happy to chat about stuff below, but no need if we don't need to:-) > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> COMMENT: >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> - general: I think a design that uses https with mutual auth >> would have been better and easier. But given that this is >> implemented and deployed, I guess it's too late for this one. > > The design goals included offline authentication for audit purposes, > possibly years after the fact. That's hard to do with any sort of > channel security mechanism, hence this approach. > >> - As with the oob spec, the xmlns values get me a 404. > > Don't think this is critical, but I can put up a vhost for this at > some point if it will make people happier. > >> - section 6: I don't agree that CMS signed data means that >> https is not needed. The latter provides confidentiality and >> integrity and server auth which the former does not. And even >> ignoring the security reasons, https is arguably much easier >> to deploy and requires less development. And http is >> vulnerable to middlebox messing (e.g. a client using http is >> more likely to be forced to support cleartext proxy-auth >> passwords). I would encourage you to encourage use of https >> with server auth in addition to CMS signed data payloads. > > Er, the CMS signatures do provide integrity, I think. > > Having implemented both application code using both HTTPS and CMS as > part of this project, I will have to respectfully disagree on relative > difficulty of implementation. CMS is a format hairball, true, but > it's all signed objects which can be signed and verified calmly at the > implementation's convenience. TLS authentication tends to involve > callbacks at awkward times, requiring one to make authentication > decisions at a time chosen by somebody at the other end of a network > connection, which can get pretty nasty. > > That said, I don't really object to HTTPS as a transport protocol, so > long as we don't have to change the authentication mechanism. >
- [sidr] Stephen Farrell's Discuss on draft-ietf-si… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [sidr] Stephen Farrell's Discuss on draft-iet… Rob Austein
- Re: [sidr] Stephen Farrell's Discuss on draft-iet… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [sidr] Stephen Farrell's Discuss on draft-iet… Rob Austein