[Sidrops] Re: Mahesh Jethanandani's No Objection on draft-ietf-sidrops-rpki-crl-numbers-04: (with COMMENT)

Job Snijders <job@sobornost.net> Wed, 21 May 2025 11:47 UTC

Return-Path: <job@instituut.net>
X-Original-To: sidrops@mail2.ietf.org
Delivered-To: sidrops@mail2.ietf.org
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 606DD2B2AA96 for <sidrops@mail2.ietf.org>; Wed, 21 May 2025 04:47:05 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ietf.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.897
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: mail2.ietf.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=instituut-net.20230601.gappssmtp.com
Received: from mail2.ietf.org ([166.84.6.31]) by localhost (mail2.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y5LfxT38F_Op for <sidrops@mail2.ietf.org>; Wed, 21 May 2025 04:47:04 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-ej1-x62f.google.com (mail-ej1-x62f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::62f]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 41CA72B2AA86 for <sidrops@ietf.org>; Wed, 21 May 2025 04:47:04 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-ej1-x62f.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-ad5a11c2942so229880666b.3 for <sidrops@ietf.org>; Wed, 21 May 2025 04:47:04 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=instituut-net.20230601.gappssmtp.com; s=20230601; t=1747828023; x=1748432823; darn=ietf.org; h=in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version:references:message-id :subject:cc:to:from:date:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=liuNC2su9Ab4fnBdlYt50nR67nlV5yhcKgWxpatMUNc=; b=PuHpaU27SaVU3t5sTjzAwVdLzQKSeAfkmhk3g8mCKMlVZQt41XigSRfR/fJXNiKQz0 8gv/q1gzNfO1lRY+VHtS4rvJ+HUr392QJhrAJ6Rs7JXAnB4LwK+16CoM8YCLul1tl8K8 zsp6KNtLpLqjt5qjBHPWzgDt4T64XVvzrBuSTsTi+ufqCV1SOeBa40VOPsam3hPzDTbt kysFi6ZKJRahEvdRkmnnFK0EGTUH5mUS4N40gDb13C4QSulDl/QQnHeqXLmrVUliaZxd d4S8cqANo9pdTflBlwk/TiUrLXGkgcRq4+LLP8jbHsMbKiQksX3aA4gAIGOEdQdF7MU8 Jy/Q==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1747828023; x=1748432823; h=in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version:references:message-id :subject:cc:to:from:date:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=liuNC2su9Ab4fnBdlYt50nR67nlV5yhcKgWxpatMUNc=; b=EznL4DlejyyaRrM5rT1CUwymUtnDZoDyIrYewBah/L2VjYfOCJUzNfbJl3FRBy18yl W4sUkiQO6evtO0rBsqNDlbv0Oouu0uvrSFq5EMVh75UQHdZfYImOff3iEgFIwADbP+i+ mfJa6fCUndxgKSLHi6K7znK0XoFAkczBuM9pq4FWUDz2wnSKBaS9xbPlH1qmWuqGRK7M 3abwr3C2vSZomAI3TnkBJb3oAruHXf8eQ6K0B0L+6uzIsMjKbbot9XmdYAyTN6n94ZqJ /BKL9FnsBNaPAoXOT8xHLGsPTRLilVux9WTSFLPW+rsyLK1O8hAS/9QZEW01vk179bMa K9Mw==
X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCXzEc4ejYcRPpIilfMnjjY71NL9xqM+8cn9RV8iTvKuC+boApesvTXJySuVqBIBu8wU1AkjSyK7@ietf.org
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyiZCcfyjeQjouMFSN6NpYZI4BvUgHg8CmHGqMzSl/aLAOUBxC/ M3cjc0oQBxS+avTd6Gjgj8FWA8f2a95iYFBVAFZFB+eOPIiiyQsEVT87XuBL2+iwH48=
X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncvZUkflI0AYXVR9/FCYZHlOXxg7mS8TDpPcf3p3RaX+4uUPAE9BWU39DM8UT3q nHIMeyzP2urXRWRs4O71bQCJ+V1E1glEDhJ77q368Vqec4nFVG8dZ9EeoPXlF4PrxW3uAAhpF47 oZ/PmfzhJ4jFJlpeAdHLm2jktI+FpduSZT3186peF7oKOpqxMBKIe8zLE4p5FUz/qO1YC314UTc wu6iazFGreu5N+u6m33yIE2/qBrIN0SAedvZMCmoweCV+2czlCuJZlFt2yg1iQION/sIA6kdFxh +80TJ3d1DdzmWlGfM4/NIFtD/PPAajhuLUoWXqXW+6CPKs/T8pflq4sEeMNX/KJoumz4
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEW0StuUNDAM7uvjk1YDTDbMlGZAxFJLLC3hR//99UQ+TSN2Xa+NnnY3qbs0JMHkuutRoQUYw==
X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:6a26:b0:acb:5343:e75 with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-ad536c23c18mr1611281466b.34.1747828023089; Wed, 21 May 2025 04:47:03 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from anton.sobornost.net (anton.sobornost.net. [192.147.168.5]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a640c23a62f3a-ad52d06bb86sm899693466b.50.2025.05.21.04.47.02 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 21 May 2025 04:47:02 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2025 11:47:01 +0000
From: Job Snijders <job@sobornost.net>
To: Ketan Talaulikar <ketant.ietf@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <aC29NXNvvqrm5HoU@anton.sobornost.net>
References: <174770944105.485278.1618636493397390933@dt-datatracker-59b84fc74f-84jsl> <aCwGpx-5a28zP66h@theobuehler.org> <5068A297-DFC7-442F-B93D-6ADAD803088B@gmail.com> <aC2JliDt4mprTCW5@feather.sobornost.net> <CAH6gdPzKrspCf1-hZx9dvOLxGaQHR6SQ-jRSTB1N9x3d3f7yWw@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <CAH6gdPzKrspCf1-hZx9dvOLxGaQHR6SQ-jRSTB1N9x3d3f7yWw@mail.gmail.com>
X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Erik Bais
Message-ID-Hash: N5PDTNCQH3FWHSLKHPELEVL4LNQGULGS
X-Message-ID-Hash: N5PDTNCQH3FWHSLKHPELEVL4LNQGULGS
X-MailFrom: job@instituut.net
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-sidrops.ietf.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
CC: Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>, Theo Buehler <tb@theobuehler.org>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-sidrops-rpki-crl-numbers@ietf.org, sidrops-chairs@ietf.org, sidrops@ietf.org, Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
Subject: [Sidrops] Re: Mahesh Jethanandani's No Objection on draft-ietf-sidrops-rpki-crl-numbers-04: (with COMMENT)
List-Id: A list for the SIDR Operations WG <sidrops.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sidrops/whwdxJ_ICVDvWnEJLl-E4gdwj_o>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/sidrops>
List-Help: <mailto:sidrops-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:sidrops-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:sidrops@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:sidrops-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:sidrops-leave@ietf.org>

Hello,

On Wed, May 21, 2025 at 04:32:37PM +0530, Ketan Talaulikar wrote:
> I would recommend against going with option 1. As an implementer, I've
> always found it helpful when I know what to put into a field that is
> "deprecated" but cannot be "removed". Such guidance helps us get
> consistency across implementations and avoids people wondering what
> that number means, how to set it appropriately, and keep it backwards
> compatible, etc.
> 
> How about the following rephrase instead to remind the context (though
> I was perfectly happy with the text as is) ?
>
> SUGGEST:
> Per Section 5.2.3 of RFC5280, CAs issue new CRLs using a monotonically
> increasing sequence number in the "CRL Number" extension. However, as
> the ordering functionality provided by "CRL Number" is fully subsumed
> by the "manifestNumber", it is RECOMMENDED that the "CRL Number"
> matches the "manifestNumber" of the manifest that will include this
> CRL (see Section 4.2.1 RFC9286)

> The 2nd change in the same section already conveys that CLR Number is
> ignored, so that part is already well specified IMO.

But this suggestion does not resolve the question "what happens when the
'CRL Number' and the 'manifestNumber' are different values?" (as asked
by a handful of people). Your suggestion also introduces a nearly
verbatim repetition of what's already stated in the Introduction
section. :-/

I understand 'patch' RFCs are harder to read, but about 6 sentences
later there is an unambigious statement "RPs MUST ignore the CRL
Number".

I'd say leave text as-is or remove the sentence about the value
recommendation. 

Kind regards,

Job