Sieve NOTIFY and ManageSieve
Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> Thu, 26 April 2007 12:02 UTC
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3QC2eol037221 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 26 Apr 2007 05:02:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3QC2eZY037220; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 05:02:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3QC2HkH037182 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 05:02:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alexey.melnikov@isode.com)
Received: from [172.16.1.99] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id <RjCUyQACOBKG@rufus.isode.com>; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 13:02:17 +0100
Message-ID: <46306FEE.4050202@isode.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 10:25:02 +0100
From: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Aaron Stone <aaron@serendipity.cx>
CC: Stephan Bosch <stephan@rename-it.nl>, ietf-mta-filters@imc.org
Subject: Sieve NOTIFY and ManageSieve
References: <46194747.8080701@rename-it.nl>, <46194747.8080701@rename-it.nl> <twig.1176489398.28614@serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us>
In-Reply-To: <twig.1176489398.28614@serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/>
List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
Aaron Stone wrote: [...] >I still don't understand why we've created the capability prefix registry >and then decided not to use it for notify. This seems silly: > > S: "Implementation" "ManageSieved" > S: "SASL" "DIGEST-MD5" > S: "SIEVE" "fileinto vacation comparator-i;ascii-numeric" > S: "STARTTLS" > S: "NOTIFY" "xmpp mailto" > S: OK > >I suggested this, but Alexey and others pointed out that it breaks extant >servers and clients quite badly: > > S: "Implementation" "ManageSieved" > S: "SASL" "DIGEST-MD5" > S: "SIEVE" "fileinto vacation" > S: "STARTTLS" > S: "NOTIFY" "xmpp mailto" > S: "COMPARATOR" "i;ascii-numeric" > S: OK > >Since we have existing implementations that expect comparator-foo, and we >created an IANA registry for extension prefixes, notify should use that: > > S: "Implementation" "ManageSieved" > S: "SASL" "DIGEST-MD5" > S: "SIEVE" "fileinto vacation comparator-i;ascii-numeric notify-xmpp > S: notify-mailto" Currently notification methods are not Sieve extensions. Strictly speaking they are in separate namespaces. One implication of your second suggestion is that 'require "notify-xmpp";' is now legal. (This is not necessarily bad, but I don't think this is necessary.) Frankly, I prefer your '"COMPARATOR" "i;ascii-numeric"' idea, except that it breaks backward compatibility. > S: "STARTTLS" > S: OK > >In draft-ietf-notify-07, I suggest removing this from IANA: > >8. IANA Considerations > > The following template specifies the IANA registration of the notify > Sieve extension specified in this document: > >- To: iana@iana.org >- Subject: Registration of new Sieve extension >- Capability name: enotify >- Description: adds the 'notify' action for notifying user about the >- received message. It also provides two new test: valid_notify_method >- checks notification URIs for validity; notify_method_capability can >- check recipients capabilities. >- RFC number: this RFC >- Contact address: >- The Sieve discussion list <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org> > > This information should be added to the list of sieve extensions > given on http://www.iana.org/assignments/sieve-extensions. > > >And replace with this (follows the format used in draft-3028bis-12): > > Capability name: enotify > Description: adds the 'notify' action for notifying a user via > some external method that a message has arrived, > adds the 'valid_notification_method' test to check > a notification URI for validity, > adds the 'notify_method_capability' test to check > if a notification method supports additional > capabilities. I can use your text. Thanks. > RFC number: this RFC (Sieve notify base spec) > Contact address: The Sieve discussion list <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org> > > Capability name: notify-* (anything starting with "notify-") > Description: adds the indicated notification method for use > with the notify action > RFC number: this RFC (Sieve notify base spec) > Contact address: The Sieve discussion list <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org> I need to poll the WG regarding the second change. Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3QC2eol037221 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 26 Apr 2007 05:02:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3QC2eZY037220; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 05:02:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3QC2HkH037182 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 05:02:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alexey.melnikov@isode.com) Received: from [172.16.1.99] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id <RjCUyQACOBKG@rufus.isode.com>; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 13:02:17 +0100 Message-ID: <46306FEE.4050202@isode.com> Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 10:25:02 +0100 From: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Aaron Stone <aaron@serendipity.cx> CC: Stephan Bosch <stephan@rename-it.nl>, ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Sieve NOTIFY and ManageSieve References: <46194747.8080701@rename-it.nl>, <46194747.8080701@rename-it.nl> <twig.1176489398.28614@serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us> In-Reply-To: <twig.1176489398.28614@serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> Aaron Stone wrote: [...] >I still don't understand why we've created the capability prefix registry >and then decided not to use it for notify. This seems silly: > > S: "Implementation" "ManageSieved" > S: "SASL" "DIGEST-MD5" > S: "SIEVE" "fileinto vacation comparator-i;ascii-numeric" > S: "STARTTLS" > S: "NOTIFY" "xmpp mailto" > S: OK > >I suggested this, but Alexey and others pointed out that it breaks extant >servers and clients quite badly: > > S: "Implementation" "ManageSieved" > S: "SASL" "DIGEST-MD5" > S: "SIEVE" "fileinto vacation" > S: "STARTTLS" > S: "NOTIFY" "xmpp mailto" > S: "COMPARATOR" "i;ascii-numeric" > S: OK > >Since we have existing implementations that expect comparator-foo, and we >created an IANA registry for extension prefixes, notify should use that: > > S: "Implementation" "ManageSieved" > S: "SASL" "DIGEST-MD5" > S: "SIEVE" "fileinto vacation comparator-i;ascii-numeric notify-xmpp > S: notify-mailto" Currently notification methods are not Sieve extensions. Strictly speaking they are in separate namespaces. One implication of your second suggestion is that 'require "notify-xmpp";' is now legal. (This is not necessarily bad, but I don't think this is necessary.) Frankly, I prefer your '"COMPARATOR" "i;ascii-numeric"' idea, except that it breaks backward compatibility. > S: "STARTTLS" > S: OK > >In draft-ietf-notify-07, I suggest removing this from IANA: > >8. IANA Considerations > > The following template specifies the IANA registration of the notify > Sieve extension specified in this document: > >- To: iana@iana.org >- Subject: Registration of new Sieve extension >- Capability name: enotify >- Description: adds the 'notify' action for notifying user about the >- received message. It also provides two new test: valid_notify_method >- checks notification URIs for validity; notify_method_capability can >- check recipients capabilities. >- RFC number: this RFC >- Contact address: >- The Sieve discussion list <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org> > > This information should be added to the list of sieve extensions > given on http://www.iana.org/assignments/sieve-extensions. > > >And replace with this (follows the format used in draft-3028bis-12): > > Capability name: enotify > Description: adds the 'notify' action for notifying a user via > some external method that a message has arrived, > adds the 'valid_notification_method' test to check > a notification URI for validity, > adds the 'notify_method_capability' test to check > if a notification method supports additional > capabilities. I can use your text. Thanks. > RFC number: this RFC (Sieve notify base spec) > Contact address: The Sieve discussion list <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org> > > Capability name: notify-* (anything starting with "notify-") > Description: adds the indicated notification method for use > with the notify action > RFC number: this RFC (Sieve notify base spec) > Contact address: The Sieve discussion list <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org> I need to poll the WG regarding the second change. Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3QC2dti037213 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 26 Apr 2007 05:02:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3QC2ds4037212; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 05:02:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3QC2HkG037182 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 05:02:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alexey.melnikov@isode.com) Received: from [172.16.1.99] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id <RjCUyAACOGGF@rufus.isode.com>; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 13:02:16 +0100 Message-ID: <46306DB3.4080804@isode.com> Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 10:15:31 +0100 From: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: Aaron Stone <aaron@serendipity.cx> CC: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: IANA registry for Sieve NOTIFY <notification-capability> References: <46194747.8080701@rename-it.nl>, <46194747.8080701@rename-it.nl> <twig.1176489398.28614@serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us> In-Reply-To: <twig.1176489398.28614@serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> Aaron Stone wrote: [...] >I think we also need a notification capability registry for the >notification method documents to register their method-specific >capabilities with. The test in draft-ietf-sieve-notify-07.txt is this: > > This document defines a single notification-capability value > "online", which is described below. Additional notification- > capability values may be defined by a Standard Track or Experimental > RFC. > >Is that sufficient without an IANA registry? > > There is no need to create an IANA registry unless the WG believes that there would be many different capabilities in the future. I don't think there would be that many <notification-capability>s. Opinions? Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3PIruii094764 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:53:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3PIru6X094763; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:53:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mauve.mrochek.com (dsl-66-59-230-40.static.linkline.com [66.59.230.40]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3PIrXu7094708 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:53:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ned.freed@mrochek.com) Received: from dkim-sign.mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01MFU66XUXM80052KM@mauve.mrochek.com> for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:53:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01MFTWUF90Y8000053@mauve.mrochek.com>; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:53:17 -0700 (PDT) Cc: Philip Guenther <guenther+mtafilters@sendmail.com>, Kjetil Torgrim Homme <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no>, Ned Freed <ned.freed@mrochek.com>, ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Message-id: <01MFU66W62O0000053@mauve.mrochek.com> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:48:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Ned Freed <ned.freed@mrochek.com> Subject: Re: Editheader issues In-reply-to: "Your message dated Wed, 25 Apr 2007 12:17:51 -0400" <20070425161751.GA34717@osmium.mv.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN References: <01MFSXRM213Q00004X@mauve.mrochek.com> <1177456182.28584.94.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <Pine.BSO.4.64.0704241740300.29807@vanye.mho.net> <20070425161751.GA34717@osmium.mv.net> To: Mark E Mallett <mem@mv.mv.com> DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nowsp; d=mrochek.com; s=mauve; t=1177527200; h=Date: From:Subject:MIME-version:Content-type; b=pbJ7h1su0wG/E6yfdB2Sso1wU MPNHPHFQRP9xDXMcKFiy0YfTVfdo5WT4M0LpdV4miWWDzzuCXt7kFGc5j0saw== Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> > On Tue, Apr 24, 2007 at 05:41:31PM -0600, Philip Guenther wrote: > > > > On Wed, 25 Apr 2007, Kjetil Torgrim Homme wrote: > > >On Tue, 2007-04-24 at 14:21 -0700, Ned Freed wrote: > > ... > > >>We also need to specify what happens if :last is specified in > > >>deleteheader without :index. I suggest saying that it will be ignored. > > >>The alternative is for it to assume an index of 1, but clarity should > > >>trump having a more concise way of specifying "delete the last field" > > > > > >I think that's a syntax error according to the draft. if :index <n> > > >and :last were independently optional, I would agree with your analysis. > > > > Right. SMI's implementation has always considered > > deleteheader :last "foo"; > > > > to be a syntax error, as reflected in the grammar. > Hmm, so it is. I have explicitly detected the missing :index and > defaulted to 1, but I'm happy to correct that... guess I will do it > now while I'm thinking about it. I have no problem with this being an error, but I'm a little leery about depending on the grammar to call it out as such, especially since the grammar literally implies that :last has to follow :index, which of course it doesn't since tagged arguments can be given in any order. And yes, I'm well aware that the practice of using ABNF-like rules but saying "the order imposed by the grammar is not actually required", but I worry about people inferring that other grammar-imposed restrictions are simply artifacts. > -mm- (then again, I still have "replaceheader") Yeah, me too... And what a pain it was to implement! Ned Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3PGIEEH073544 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:18:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3PGIESx073543; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:18:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from shell.mv.net (osmium.mv.net [199.125.85.152]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l3PGHq3E073483 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:18:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mem@mv.mv.com) Received: (qmail 36113 invoked by uid 101); 25 Apr 2007 12:17:51 -0400 From: "Mark E. Mallett" <mem@mv.mv.com> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 12:17:51 -0400 To: Philip Guenther <guenther+mtafilters@sendmail.com> Cc: Kjetil Torgrim Homme <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no>, Ned Freed <ned.freed@mrochek.com>, ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Re: Editheader issues Message-ID: <20070425161751.GA34717@osmium.mv.net> References: <01MFSXRM213Q00004X@mauve.mrochek.com> <1177456182.28584.94.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <Pine.BSO.4.64.0704241740300.29807@vanye.mho.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.64.0704241740300.29807@vanye.mho.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> On Tue, Apr 24, 2007 at 05:41:31PM -0600, Philip Guenther wrote: > > On Wed, 25 Apr 2007, Kjetil Torgrim Homme wrote: > >On Tue, 2007-04-24 at 14:21 -0700, Ned Freed wrote: > ... > >>We also need to specify what happens if :last is specified in > >>deleteheader without :index. I suggest saying that it will be ignored. > >>The alternative is for it to assume an index of 1, but clarity should > >>trump having a more concise way of specifying "delete the last field" > > > >I think that's a syntax error according to the draft. if :index <n> > >and :last were independently optional, I would agree with your analysis. > > Right. SMI's implementation has always considered > deleteheader :last "foo"; > > to be a syntax error, as reflected in the grammar. Hmm, so it is. I have explicitly detected the missing :index and defaulted to 1, but I'm happy to correct that... guess I will do it now while I'm thinking about it. -mm- (then again, I still have "replaceheader") Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3PEV4Df062882 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 25 Apr 2007 07:31:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3PEV4J2062880; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 07:31:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3PEUhw6062835 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 07:31:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alexey.melnikov@isode.com) Received: from [172.16.1.99] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id <Ri9mEgACOJQl@rufus.isode.com>; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 15:30:42 +0100 Message-ID: <462F65D9.1090101@isode.com> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 15:29:45 +0100 From: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kjetil Torgrim Homme <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no> CC: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Re: Collected changes to 3028bis-12, section 2.4.2.4 References: <E1HZ0am-0004Yj-FC@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175676713.26520.91.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ1i6-0004b3-SV@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175686699.26520.160.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ4Yb-0005Im-4o@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <01MF25RJWD1K000053@mauve.mrochek.com> <461BC49D.9010609@isode.com> <461E88D4.3050402@isode.com> <4623CAA1.5050906@isode.com> <4623CB53.3040800@isode.com> <1176766348.32605.10.camel@honbori.ifi.uio.no> In-Reply-To: <1176766348.32605.10.camel@honbori.ifi.uio.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> Kjetil Torgrim Homme wrote: >>> "$${hex:40}" -> "$@" >>> "${hex: 40 }" -> "@" >>> "${HEX: 40}" -> "@" >>> >>> >the second is superfluous. > It shows a trailing space, so I let it be. >>> "${unicode:40}" -> "@" >>> "${ unicode:40}" -> "${ unicode:40}" >>> "${UNICODE:40}" -> "@" >>> > >if we include the last example, the first in this set is superfluous >IMHO. I'd like one of the examples to include backslash quoting, we >could extend that example, e.g., "\${UNICODE:40}" -> "@" > I didn't delete the last one, but more examples is better than less. >>> "${Unicode:40}" -> "@" >>> > >unnecessary, IMHO. > > This one wasn't removed either. Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3PCheUG052353 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 25 Apr 2007 05:43:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3PChe8B052352; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 05:43:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp.aegee.uni-karlsruhe.de (smtp.aegee.uni-karlsruhe.de [129.13.62.220]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3PChIKe052334 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 05:43:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Dilyan.Palauzov@aegee.org) Received: from aegeeserv.aegee.org (aegeeserv.aegee.uni-karlsruhe.de [129.13.131.80]) by smtp2.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de with esmtp (Exim 4.63 #1) id 1Hggq3-0003dW-Di; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 14:43:15 +0200 Received: from AEGEEserv.aegee.uni-karlsruhe.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aegeeserv.aegee.org (8.13.8/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l3PChId1013798 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 12:43:18 GMT Received: (from wwwrun@localhost) by AEGEEserv.aegee.uni-karlsruhe.de (8.13.8/8.13.6/Submit) id l3PChGBx013797 for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 14:43:16 +0200 X-Authentication-Warning: AEGEEserv.aegee.uni-karlsruhe.de: wwwrun set sender to Dilyan.Palauzov@aegee.org using -f Received: from i08pc35.atis-stud.uni-karlsruhe.de (i08pc35.atis-stud.uni-karlsruhe.de [141.3.12.135]) by mail.aegee.org (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 14:43:16 +0200 Message-ID: <20070425144316.uosrhrxqrkwo8wog@mail.aegee.org> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 14:43:16 +0200 From: Dilyan Palauzov <Dilyan.Palauzov@aegee.org> To: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: notify from: / Re: Minutes from the Prague IETF meeting References: <46275874.8000802@isode.com> In-Reply-To: <46275874.8000802@isode.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.4) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.90.2/3159/Wed Apr 25 01:36:34 2007 on AEGEEserv.aegee.uni-karlsruhe.de X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by balder-227.proper.com id l3PCheKd052346 Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> Hello, In the minutes is mentioned "Sendmail implementation". Is there any? Below is the extract from the minutes that talks about the notify from: issue. I do not see a reason to have different logic when sending a notification to the recipient, and when sending an out-of-office message to the sender. Namely: - if from: is applied, use its value - if a mail is send (envelopely) to the address mm@example.com, use this as notify from: - mailbox name and message headers do not count - if a mail is sent (in the same envelope) to the same maibox (and therefore user), mentioning more than one of her/his addresses in the envelope, then which of them to use in the notify? e.g. Mail from: peter Rcpt to: postmaster@example.com Rcpt to: webmaster@example.com and postmaster and webmaster are the same mailbox. Well, I don't know if in this case one or two notifications shall be send. And I don't want if in similar case an autoresponder shall answer, if he has to send one or two vacation messages. СÑÑ Ð·Ð´Ñаве, ÐилÑн > 3. Message origin: does the notification message come from the original > "RCPT TO", or from the notification system? > > Alexey pointed out a suggestion to make it an option. > Pete asked what the From is for and whether we were going to reply to > these messages. > > Philip: if the notification system can autoprocess bounces, then it > belongs in the envelope MAIL FROM > Maybe always is better, to block the loop possibility. > > Dave Cridland: not clear why worry about "from" for notifications: are > they to send msgs *to* a user, not necessarily be *from* anyone in > particular. > > Philip/Pete: The important 'from' here is the envelope from. IMHO, the > env-from should *never* be the original. > > No clear consensus on this issue in the room. Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3PAfSXn038807 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 25 Apr 2007 03:41:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3PAfSrp038806; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 03:41:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3PAfPvN038787 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 03:41:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alexey.melnikov@isode.com) Received: from [172.16.1.99] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id <Ri8v0QACOJgN@rufus.isode.com>; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:39:13 +0100 Message-ID: <462F2F99.5020602@isode.com> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:38:17 +0100 From: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Sieve session during the upcoming Chicago IETF meeting MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> I've requested a 2 hour slot in Chicago. The first level conflicts listed are: imapext lemonade sasl usefor eai calsify dkim kitten Are there any other conflicts people would like to be included? Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3PAGkg1035363 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 25 Apr 2007 03:16:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3PAGkHt035362; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 03:16:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3PAGOMi035315 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 03:16:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alexey.melnikov@isode.com) Received: from [172.16.1.99] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id <Ri8qjAACOKZp@rufus.isode.com>; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:16:44 +0100 Message-ID: <462F2A54.1060608@isode.com> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:15:48 +0100 From: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Haardt <michael.haardt@freenet.ag> CC: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Re: Collected changes to 3028bis-12, section 2.4.2.4 References: <E1HZ0am-0004Yj-FC@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175676713.26520.91.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ1i6-0004b3-SV@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175686699.26520.160.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ4Yb-0005Im-4o@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <01MF25RJWD1K000053@mauve.mrochek.com> <461BC49D.9010609@isode.com> <461E88D4.3050402@isode.com> <4623CAA1.5050906@isode.com> <4623CB53.3040800@isode.com> <1176766348.32605.10.camel@honbori.ifi.uio.no> <E1HeRd1-0004dt-RS@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> In-Reply-To: <E1HeRd1-0004dt-RS@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> Michael Haardt wrote: >>>> "${unicode:1000000}" -> error >>>> "${unicode:200000}" -> error >>>> >>>> >Now that we dropped the 6-digit-restriction, we no longer need two examples >of range violations. > > Ok. I've removed the first one. Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3PAGjFZ035355 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 25 Apr 2007 03:16:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3PAGjee035354; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 03:16:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3PAGOMh035315 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 03:16:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alexey.melnikov@isode.com) Received: from [172.16.1.99] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id <Ri8qeAACOApm@rufus.isode.com>; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:16:24 +0100 Message-ID: <462F2A3F.7040404@isode.com> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:15:27 +0100 From: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kjetil Torgrim Homme <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no> CC: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Re: Collected changes to 3028bis-12, section 2.4.2.4 References: <E1HZ0am-0004Yj-FC@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175676713.26520.91.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ1i6-0004b3-SV@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175686699.26520.160.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ4Yb-0005Im-4o@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <01MF25RJWD1K000053@mauve.mrochek.com> <461BC49D.9010609@isode.com> <461E88D4.3050402@isode.com> <4623CAA1.5050906@isode.com> <4623CB53.3040800@isode.com> <1176766348.32605.10.camel@honbori.ifi.uio.no> In-Reply-To: <1176766348.32605.10.camel@honbori.ifi.uio.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> Kjetil Torgrim Homme wrote: >>> "${hex:40${hex:40}}" -> "${hex:40@}" >>> >>> >"${hex:40${hex:30}}" -> "${hex:400}" > >would demonstrate that only one pass is done, too. > > I've dropped one 0 (i.e. "${hex:4${hex:30}}"), as 400 is invalid hex anyway. >>> "${unicode:40}" -> "@" >>> "${ unicode:40}" -> "${ unicode:40}" >>> "${UNICODE:40}" -> "@" >>> >>> >if we include the last example, the first in this set is superfluous >IMHO. I'd like one of the examples to include backslash quoting, we >could extend that example, e.g., "\${UNICODE:40}" -> "@" > > 3028bis-12, section 2.4.2 says: A quoted string starts and ends with a single double quote (the <"> character, US-ASCII 34). A backslash ("\", US-ASCII 92) inside of a quoted string is followed by either another backslash or a double quote. These two-character sequences represent a single backslash or double quote within the value, respectively. Scripts SHOULD NOT escape other characters with a backslash. So I would rather not demonstrate something which violates the SHOULD NOT. Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3ONgWh3020432 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 24 Apr 2007 16:42:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3ONgWnA020431; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 16:42:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from foon.sendmail.com (smtp-out.sendmail.com [209.246.26.45]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3ONg9vN020390 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 16:42:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from guenther+mtafilters@sendmail.com) Received: from [10.201.0.39] (adsl-64-58-1-252.mho.net [64.58.1.252] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by foon.sendmail.com (Switch-3.2.5/Switch-3.2.0) with ESMTP id l3ONiKfZ028488 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 24 Apr 2007 16:44:26 -0700 X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v0.5.1 foon.sendmail.com l3ONiKfZ028488 DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/simple; d=sendmail.com; s=tls.dkim; t=1177458272; bh=ShRaEcPqzyeHRbHUb5SRye0fPwI=; h=X-DomainKeys: DomainKey-Signature:Date:From:X-X-Sender:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To: Message-ID:References:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=iL4mvsodCn9TEu6x yzNYKHOEV5wkphlqI8H5aE6TO0KS2gCZJZurlzTVf2fO/YV+vT52GMh7NxvrErIH0xn dSh8mkkeUD+gMxP7A/AfjQuEMbF3rAHmE/YB0r7FE7n8ew4LlkhNRB5ZEq6J9lfUAao NSlVJ+W02Sy9aCiPVO24A= X-DomainKeys: Sendmail DomainKeys Filter v0.4.1 foon.sendmail.com l3ONiKfZ028488 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=tls; d=sendmail.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=date:from:x-x-sender:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id: references:mime-version:content-type; b=FaIv+SI4k1gSF6G1jB+xzsGbSFnIXoxrL/h+vFMxh7DvATBOH+qscm8NaagUck76p bbeIKJWWO8rKkzn437FsBk01HYeddVaXAALRDzfsTqWmY5IO5+JYA9gA1Mw4xiZLf4x 3jFC+fUfBf8GOjdBrVmPlP582ruIhIbLCKfJ/uY= Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 17:41:31 -0600 From: Philip Guenther <guenther+mtafilters@sendmail.com> X-X-Sender: guenther@vanye.mho.net To: Kjetil Torgrim Homme <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no> cc: Ned Freed <ned.freed@mrochek.com>, ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Re: Editheader issues In-Reply-To: <1177456182.28584.94.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.64.0704241740300.29807@vanye.mho.net> References: <01MFSXRM213Q00004X@mauve.mrochek.com> <1177456182.28584.94.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> On Wed, 25 Apr 2007, Kjetil Torgrim Homme wrote: > On Tue, 2007-04-24 at 14:21 -0700, Ned Freed wrote: ... >> We also need to specify what happens if :last is specified in >> deleteheader without :index. I suggest saying that it will be ignored. >> The alternative is for it to assume an index of 1, but clarity should >> trump having a more concise way of specifying "delete the last field" > > I think that's a syntax error according to the draft. if :index <n> > and :last were independently optional, I would agree with your analysis. Right. SMI's implementation has always considered deleteheader :last "foo"; to be a syntax error, as reflected in the grammar. Philip Guenther Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3ON9jxb014972 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 24 Apr 2007 16:09:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3ON9jxI014971; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 16:09:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from pat.uio.no (pat.uio.no [129.240.10.15]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3ON9hPr014964 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 16:09:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kjetilho@ifi.uio.no) Received: from mail-mx4.uio.no ([129.240.10.45]) by pat.uio.no with esmtp (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no>) id 1HgU8l-0002mt-DE; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 01:09:43 +0200 Received: from smtp.uio.no ([129.240.10.9] helo=mail-mx4.uio.no) by mail-mx4.uio.no with esmtp (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no>) id 1HgU8l-0003KE-26; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 01:09:43 +0200 Received: from havhest.ifi.uio.no ([129.240.68.231]) by mail-mx4.uio.no with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no>) id 1HgU8k-0003KB-W1; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 01:09:43 +0200 Subject: Re: Editheader issues From: Kjetil Torgrim Homme <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no> To: Ned Freed <ned.freed@mrochek.com> Cc: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org In-Reply-To: <01MFSXRM213Q00004X@mauve.mrochek.com> References: <01MFSXRM213Q00004X@mauve.mrochek.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 01:09:42 +0200 Message-Id: <1177456182.28584.94.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UiO-SPF-Received: X-UiO-Resend: resent X-UiO-SPF-Received: X-UiO-Spam-info: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-4.9, required=12.0, autolearn=disabled, AWL=0.077,UIO_MAIL_IS_INTERNAL=-5) X-UiO-Scanned: 6A5386DE6D080E99B8D7A232C2F837D4DD8301DA X-UiO-SPAM-Test: remote_host: 129.240.10.9 spam_score: -48 maxlevel 200 minaction 2 bait 0 mail/h: 53 total 1309374 max/h 8345 blacklist 0 greylist 0 ratelimit 0 Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> On Tue, 2007-04-24 at 14:21 -0700, Ned Freed wrote: > I think the only sensible thing is for deleteheader to act immediately and > renumber. agreed. > We also need to specify how addheader interacts with deleteheader. The > following should be essentially a no-op IMO: > > require "editheader"; > addheader "X-test" "whatever"; > deleteheader :index 1 "X-Test" yes. > A couple of other issues occured to me while looking at this general area. First, we need to > specify what happens if the comparator or match-type arguments are present in > deleteheader but no value-pattern(s) is(are) specified. I suggest saying that > the comparator and match-type are ignored in this case. I don't think it needs spelling out, but I won't object either. > We also need to specify what happens if :last is specified in deleteheader > without :index. I suggest saying that it will be ignored. The alternative is > for it to assume an index of 1, but clarity should trump having a more concise > way of specifying "delete the last field" I think that's a syntax error according to the draft. if :index <n> and :last were independently optional, I would agree with your analysis. -- Kjetil T. Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3OLgJnc000123 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 24 Apr 2007 14:42:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3OLgJPF000122; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 14:42:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mauve.mrochek.com (dsl-66-59-230-40.static.linkline.com [66.59.230.40]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3OLfwwp099955 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 14:42:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ned.freed@mrochek.com) Received: from dkim-sign.mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01MFSXRN4B1C004QMP@mauve.mrochek.com> for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 14:41:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01MFSX22IITC00004X@mauve.mrochek.com> for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 14:41:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-id: <01MFSXRM213Q00004X@mauve.mrochek.com> Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 14:21:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Ned Freed <ned.freed@mrochek.com> Subject: Editheader issues MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed To: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nowsp; d=mrochek.com; s=mauve; t=1177450916; h=Date: From:Subject:MIME-version:Content-type; b=jjp0iK8zaHN1ej/yPfWfPVukJ byVYJkZfsJbJRok05u6ZtJ03WBx/AYxUbXlSgwvGta3x8vyotjmEKs6xul8Yw== Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> We jyst had an interesting bug filed on our editheader implementation. The header in question contained: X-Test: instance 1 X-Test: instance 2 X-Test: instance 3 X-Test: instance 4 X-Test: instance 5 X-Test: instance 6 And here's the sieve script: require "editheader"; deleteheader :index 1 "X-Test"; deleteheader :index 2 "X-Test"; deleteheader :index 3 "X-Test"; deleteheader :index 4 "X-Test"; deleteheader :index 5 "X-Test"; deleteheader :index 6 "X-Test"; They expected the resulting header not to contain any X-Test fields. What they ended up with was: X-Test: instance 2 X-Test: instance 4 X-Test: instance 6 The issue, of course, is whether deleteheader acts immediately and removes the headser in question, renumbering the remaining fields with the same label, or whether it removes the field but keeps the numbering. The draft isn't specific about the interaction of deleteheader with itself, however, it does say that any edits you make are immediately visible to subsequent header and address tests. I think the only sensible thing is for deleteheader to act immediately and renumber. Having some things consider the original header and others consider the modified one would be terribly confusing. (The example shown above might actually be a good one to include in the draft to show how this is supposed to work.) We also need to specify how addheader interacts with deleteheader. The following should be essentially a no-op IMO: require "editheader"; addheader "X-test" "whatever"; deleteheader :index 1 "X-Test" A couple of other issues occured to me while looking at this general area. First, we need to specify what happens if the comparator or match-type arguments are present in deleteheader but no value-pattern(s) is(are) specified. I suggest saying that the comparator and match-type are ignored in this case. We also need to specify what happens if :last is specified in deleteheader without :index. I suggest saying that it will be ignored. The alternative is for it to assume an index of 1, but clarity should trump having a more concise way of specifying "delete the last field" Ned Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3OLDpnU095065 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 24 Apr 2007 14:13:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3OLDptx095064; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 14:13:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from pat.uio.no (pat.uio.no [129.240.10.15]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3OLDS7X095009 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 14:13:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kjetilho@ifi.uio.no) Received: from mail-mx9.uio.no ([129.240.10.39]) by pat.uio.no with esmtp (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no>) id 1HgSKG-0003Ky-0R; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 23:13:28 +0200 Received: from smtp.uio.no ([129.240.10.9] helo=mail-mx9.uio.no) by mail-mx9.uio.no with esmtp (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no>) id 1HgSK8-0007y8-HG; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 23:13:20 +0200 Received: from havhest.ifi.uio.no ([129.240.68.231]) by mail-mx9.uio.no with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no>) id 1HgSK8-0007wN-8Y; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 23:13:20 +0200 Subject: Re: list lookups From: Kjetil Torgrim Homme <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no> To: Aaron Stone <aaron@serendipity.cx> Cc: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org In-Reply-To: <twig.1177353975.32390@serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us> References: <46275874.8000802@isode.com> <twig.1177353975.32390@serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 23:13:02 +0200 Message-Id: <1177449182.28584.88.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UiO-SPF-Received: X-UiO-Resend: resent X-UiO-SPF-Received: X-UiO-Spam-info: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-4.9, required=12.0, autolearn=disabled, AWL=0.133,UIO_MAIL_IS_INTERNAL=-5) X-UiO-Scanned: 790E9CF3746F524BC6EF10AEA49269347526CC41 X-UiO-SPAM-Test: remote_host: 129.240.10.9 spam_score: -48 maxlevel 200 minaction 2 bait 0 mail/h: 205 total 1308024 max/h 8345 blacklist 0 greylist 0 ratelimit 0 Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> On Mon, 2007-04-23 at 18:46 +0000, Aaron Stone wrote: > On Mon, Apr 23, 2007, Nigel Swinson <Nigel.Swinson@rockliffe.com> said: > > FYI we support it this kind of way: > > > > if header :is "From" "${Whitelist}" {...} > > > > Where "Whitelist" is an externally configured list of email addresses. Were > > I to re-implement, then I'd put "Whitelist" in a namespace. I consider it > > along the lines of accessing server configuration, for which we've already > > discussed adding a namespace. yes, definitely put it in a namespace, IMO it's needed to conform to "variables". intuitively, I don't like the use of ":is" here, but it may be down to wording. if you said "externally configured search" instead of "list", I don't think I would get the wrong association to Sieve lists. there are some issues, what does "${whitelist} foo" mean? stuff like that needs to be specified. > I would like to see a namespace or function space of some kind. A few > people pointed out that it might be good to specify an LDAP URI inside the > list description, so we're really talking about functions, imho. I would like to stay away from functions if possible. how complex do we need to be to handle the use cases people are thinking of? consider: if address "From" "${addressbook.mailaddress}" ... if header "From" "${addressbook.fullname}" ... if header "From" "${addressbook.lastname}" ... could be translated into an LDAP search for attributes "mail", "cn" or "sn" respectively. OR and AND can be done at the Sieve level. the hypothetical addressbook extension could also support set "addressbook.baseuri" "ldap://ldap.uio.no/cn=mail,dc=uio,dc=no"; but this quickly gets difficult to get interoperable since there is little standardisation wrt which LDAP schema to use, and of course LDAP isn't the only game in town. HOWEVER: why use variables syntax -- this is similarily expressive: if addressbook :fullname "From" ... and we could even do require "variables"; if address :domain :matches "From" "*" { if addressbook :mailaddress :value :matches "*@${1}" ... although it would probably better to make two tests, one for explicit lookup value and one for lookup value fetched from headers. yet another option is to use tagged arguments: if envelope :addressbook :matches "From" "*" if address :addressbook "From" :matches "*@example.com" ... it may be more natural to have only one mandatory argument and leave out the "*", but I don't think we can change the syntax that way. instead the above test could FIRST do a normal match, and THEN a list lookup. (there is no way to do a search on surname or full name without variables, however, since ADDRESS-PART doesn't include the tagged arguments to extract those elements.) I think I favour this approach as it is more general -- the tag can be reused for "address", "header", "envelope" and "string". it's all a hypothetical example, but I hope it illustrates some options. sorry for rambling on :-) > > The idea of IO bound operations from a sieve script such as LDAP/RBL lookups > > makes me twitchy about performance, but these concerns are of course > > solvable using multiple threads/processes. I think it's the first time > > we've suggested doing this kind of thing, so may be a knock to the > > architecture of a few implementations and therefore make it difficult for > > them to implement. indeed. defered delivery is not uncommon in e-mail systems, but the Sieve base document does not offer that as an error mode. is that implicitly allowed? I think not, and wonder if we could/should add wording which says something about temporary errors, e.g. that there MUST be an upper time limit to defered delivery caused by problems during execution before the default fallback action (ie., keep) is done instead. > By using strict evaluation of variables, we set ourselves up for a > performance problem because we may be asking the interpreter to first > expand the full external list and then pass that into the test. Variables > says that implementations should be able to pass unexpanded material into > a test, but we still have keep the syntax of list expansions in mind so > that we don't force everyone into nasty interpreter hacks. agreed. the idea is that variables without a namespace can always be expanded. variables with a namespace may have magic associated with them so whether to expand them before calling the action or test should be determined per namespace. -- Kjetil T. Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NIiAYt085816 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:44:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3NIiAfa085814; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:44:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.serendipity.cx (serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us [66.92.2.87]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NIhnBv085738 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:44:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from aaron@serendipity.cx) Received: from serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us (unknown [10.10.10.34]) by mail.serendipity.cx (Postfix) with SMTP id E567F513F; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:46:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 18:46:15 -0000 To: "Nigel Swinson" <Nigel.Swinson@rockliffe.com>, "Alexey Melnikov" <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> Subject: Re: Minutes from the Prague IETF meeting From: "Aaron Stone" <aaron@serendipity.cx> X-Mailer: TWIG 2.8.3 Message-ID: <twig.1177353975.32390@serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us> In-Reply-To: <028301c785ca$abd290a0$6e2c2a0a@rockliffe.com> References: <46275874.8000802@isode.com> Cc: <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org> Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> On Mon, Apr 23, 2007, Nigel Swinson <Nigel.Swinson@rockliffe.com> said: > >> Alexey presented a new (not yet written) draft on "Externally stored >> lists". >> The basic idea is to be able to store lists of users or email addresses in >> SQL/LDAP/ACAP/... >> Such lists can be updated externally, without the need to update Sieve >> script. >> The proposal is to extend redirect action and header/envelope tests to >> reference externally >> stored lists. > > FYI we support it this kind of way: > > if header :is "From" "${Whitelist}" {...} > > Where "Whitelist" is an externally configured list of email addresses. Were > I to re-implement, then I'd put "Whitelist" in a namespace. I consider it > along the lines of accessing server configuration, for which we've already > discussed adding a namespace. I would like to see a namespace or function space of some kind. A few people pointed out that it might be good to specify an LDAP URI inside the list description, so we're really talking about functions, imho. > The idea of IO bound operations from a sieve script such as LDAP/RBL lookups > makes me twitchy about performance, but these concerns are of course > solvable using multiple threads/processes. I think it's the first time > we've suggested doing this kind of thing, so may be a knock to the > architecture of a few implementations and therefore make it difficult for > them to implement. By using strict evaluation of variables, we set ourselves up for a performance problem because we may be asking the interpreter to first expand the full external list and then pass that into the test. Variables says that implementations should be able to pass unexpanded material into a test, but we still have keep the syntax of list expansions in mind so that we don't force everyone into nasty interpreter hacks. Aaron Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NHDYNR071150 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:13:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3NHDYSI071149; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:13:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.rockliffe.com (mail.rockliffe.com [147.208.128.10]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3NHDDHC071101 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:13:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Nigel.Swinson@rockliffe.com) X-Spam-Score-scoring_explanation: X-Spam-Score-spf_status: X-Spam-Score-Spamcatcher1: 7daf846cc339090d91c9fe4301c74899 X-Spam-Score-Summary: 2,0,0,da7bacca5254c4fa,b219b43be74849f1,nigel.swinson@rockliffe.com,,RULES_HIT:355:379:481:539:540:541:542:543:567:599:601:945:946:980:982:988:989:1155:1156:1261:1277:1311:1313:1314:1345:1437:1515:1516:1518:1534:1541:1587:1593:1594:1711:1730:1747:1766:1792:2073:2075:2078:2393:2553:2559:2562:2828:2895:3027:3352:3865:3866:3867:3868:3869:3870:3871:3872:4250:5007,0,RBL:none,CacheIP:none,Bayesian:0.5,0.5,0.5,Netcheck:none,DomainCache:0,MSF:not bulk,SPF:,MSBL:none,DNSBL:none X-Spam-Score-rbl_summary: none X-Spam-Score-Phishing_status: no X-Spam-Score-Countries: X-Spam-Score-Charsets: iso-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: 1 Received: from nigel (unverified [10.42.44.110]) by mail.rockliffe.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 8.0.1) with ESMTP id <B0000163123@mail.rockliffe.com>; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:13:11 -0700 Message-ID: <028301c785ca$abd290a0$6e2c2a0a@rockliffe.com> From: "Nigel Swinson" <Nigel.Swinson@rockliffe.com> To: "Alexey Melnikov" <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> Cc: <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org> References: <46275874.8000802@isode.com> Subject: Re: Minutes from the Prague IETF meeting Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 18:13:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> > Alexey presented a new (not yet written) draft on "Externally stored > lists". > The basic idea is to be able to store lists of users or email addresses in > SQL/LDAP/ACAP/... > Such lists can be updated externally, without the need to update Sieve > script. > The proposal is to extend redirect action and header/envelope tests to > reference externally > stored lists. FYI we support it this kind of way: if header :is "From" "${Whitelist}" {...} Where "Whitelist" is an externally configured list of email addresses. Were I to re-implement, then I'd put "Whitelist" in a namespace. I consider it along the lines of accessing server configuration, for which we've already discussed adding a namespace. The idea of IO bound operations from a sieve script such as LDAP/RBL lookups makes me twitchy about performance, but these concerns are of course solvable using multiple threads/processes. I think it's the first time we've suggested doing this kind of thing, so may be a knock to the architecture of a few implementations and therefore make it difficult for them to implement. Nigel Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3JBtkRM080808 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 19 Apr 2007 04:55:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3JBtk4p080807; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 04:55:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3JBtOZa080764 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 04:55:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alexey.melnikov@isode.com) Received: from [172.16.1.99] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id <RidYqwBgMwkk@rufus.isode.com>; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 12:55:23 +0100 Message-ID: <46275874.8000802@isode.com> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 12:54:28 +0100 From: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Minutes from the Prague IETF meeting MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> And at the very last moment Alexey submits minutes... Enjoy! =========== Thank you to Dave Cridland for being the Jabber scribe this time. Alexey was the only co-chair present this time. He briefly talked about status of different documents (see slides). About half WG docs are in RFC ed queue. Collation document got published as RFC 4790, thanks to Arnt. Base spec was submitted for IESG review. Philip promised to update Sieve body one more time before sending it to IESG for publication. Editheader - need to resolve handling of mail loops. Alexey/Cyrus think that notify extension is basically ready, but needs reviews and feedback on changes. Mailto notification is in WGLC, has some open issues, but not much feedback. Refuse/Reject: Alexey has been too busy recently for an update. The WG briefly talked about Editheader interaction with redirect/reject. Philip replied in jabber that the new text doesn't affect reject, which still requires to return the original headers, as per another paragraph in the document. And he basically agrees with other comments and will do another revision of the draft before sending it to IESG. Alexey talked about recent changes to Notify. No comments or objections were received, so Alexey & Barry think that the document is done. TODO: Dave Cridland & Randy Gellens to do a full review of notify. Barry has presented the Mailto notification draft. He talked about open issues: 1. URI Parameter conflicts with other notify parameters: Do notify parameter Override the URI parameters, is it an Error or something else? Barry likes "Error". Alexey & Michael prefer Override. Alexey is thinking of external URIs being pulled in (perhaps from IMAP METADATA). Barry thinks that Ned might have useful opinion. Philip: I suppose a script can code itself defensively to test the URI before it uses it. Possible, but ugly. Later he added that there were no practical way to test the contents of a URI using just ":matches", one needed regexps to break them down. TODO: Ask Ned for opinion. Unless more people say there opinion, the Override option will prevail. 2. Undesirable URI params: what do we do if a URI specifies unsafe headers? Barry slightly prefer ignoring bad headers. Ted saying the mailto scheme RFC is pretty limited on these points, so Sieve advice and mailto RFC advice would probably be different. 3. Message origin: does the notification message come from the original "RCPT TO", or from the notification system? Alexey pointed out a suggestion to make it an option. Pete asked what the From is for and whether we were going to reply to these messages. Philip: if the notification system can autoprocess bounces, then it belongs in the envelope MAIL FROM Maybe always is better, to block the loop possibility. Dave Cridland: not clear why worry about "from" for notifications: are they to send msgs *to* a user, not necessarily be *from* anyone in particular. Philip/Pete: The important 'from' here is the envelope from. IMHO, the env-from should *never* be the original. No clear consensus on this issue in the room. 4. Body excerpts: "is Barry being silly" for wanting this? Alexey commented that the Sieve Notify used to have body extraction action, which was removed. But it will move to MIME-loops, so he thinks that this is still useful. Dave Crocker said that there was a long history of an excerpt being useful. But it's tricky to get it perfect. Randy was discussing whether the spec ought to say more than "this is a good idea", or should we stipulate down to the last octet. Barry likes the idea of vague specification, with a view that mime-loops and body extraction to a variable would provide a strictly specified method for doing this. Randy: I'm concerned that if we try and standardize it we end up with a sprintf format for how the script specifies how much of the body to use and how it appears. Since that prospect is so scary I urge us to instead say "engine may do this if it wants, it is helpful" Barry commented that this automatic vague excerpt could be the default. TODO: verify consensus for "vague description of body excerpts" in the document. Tony has presented the updated MIME loops document: Open issues: 1. Should enclose throw away modifications? Philip: I think enclose should honor changes. Anyone using enclose to create bounces should be shot. Aaron: why would we *not* want to honor changes? Ted says we can always get unmodified behavior by structuring the script carefully (As in not doing any modifications). Consensus to use the modified version. 2. Should we synthesize Date and From headers to reflect the current user and time? Philip: Is there text that can be stolen from the submission spec? It's kinda like a submission, the creation of a full message from a partial one... Alexey prefer synthesized: the original are still in the enclosed part. Sometimes it is useful to see when the message was created and when it was enclosed. Note from the room about synthesizing new message id. Kjetil and Tony were discussing syntax for extracting key/value pairs from variables). Everybody else except Philip don't have a clue about the discussion, because people haven't read the most recent message from Kjetil on the mailing list. Philip: Kjetil's idea is cute, but they're not much better than simply using a comma separated list, partly because there's no way to quote the value properly when adding it. You can put quotes around it, but that won't handle embedded quotes or backslashes Regexps would be as good (or better), but you can't do the extraction with just :matches. Time for that SQL access extension. General comment from Alexey (as a co-chair): the list of open issues that Tony presented differs from the one from the latest San Diego IETF, and the issues were not addressed. Tony agrees to review the San Diego list. Alexey: Assuming all issues are resolved, MIME loops will be last called in a couple of weeks. Alexey briefly talked about Ned's individual Date-Index Draft. The document has no major issues now, Alexey to shepherd to IESG. Alexey has briefly talked about Ned's Environment & Notary (DSN) extension. Barry/Alexey: the two extensions don't belong to the same document. TODO: Ask Ned to split the draft into 2. Next Alexey presented his draft on "Accessing IMAP per-mailbox annotations from Sieve". Alexey described features of the extension: 1). Ability to test for mailbox existence 2). Ability to create mailbox on fileinto. Without the new :create tag fileinto creates mailboxes in some implementations, but doesn't in others. Some short discussion about Sendmail implementation: it still treats :create as an optional request, which is arguably a bug. Sendmail implements Sieve in SMTP server, so fileinto turns into +detail email address, thus the mailbox creation request might not be honored. Alexey talked about an example: an annotation can be used to turn vacation autoreply on or off. Open issues: 1). Do we want access to server annotations? - Alexey thinks "yes" Chris pointed out that testing server annotations and testing environment are basically the same thing. Barry agreed. Barry commented that there is no namespace-like thing in Environment that might support this. TODO: Talk to Ned about namespaces in Environment. 2). Do we want access to LIST-EXTENDED data? ACLs? - Alexey thinks "maybe" on LIST-EXTENDED data. Philip threatened to lose the breakfast he just ate. Alexey presented a new (not yet written) draft on "Externally stored lists". The basic idea is to be able to store lists of users or email addresses in SQL/LDAP/ACAP/... Such lists can be updated externally, without the need to update Sieve script. The proposal is to extend redirect action and header/envelope tests to reference externally stored lists. Barry showed his Sieve script. It has many email addresses hardcoded, so he would like to have such an extension. Randy said that maybe an external list reference should be via URLs. (The proposal as described had list labels as opaque UTF-8 strings, e.g. "blacklist") Philip agrees. Philip: hmm, how about using imap: URLs to access annotations/metadata in IMAP? Aaron: so, :list "string" is probably a bad name because its confusable with :param ["string", "list"]. And, this would be cool together with variable namespaces: ${external:name} Kjetil suggests that this probably doesn't scale too well, for example if the list contains ten thousands of addresses (like an enterprise address book). Kjetil suggests a comparator which takes a URI on one side. Alexey: Sure, testing membership in big lists can be optimized (e.g. use LDAP search). This is an implementation detail. Randy pointed out that we needed to handle updates, and the LDAP server going down. Pete says there are email clients which already have addressbook interaction in filtering. Aaron: I'm in favor of some kind of managesieve extension to maintain the external lists. Randy said that the extension should also cover management of mailing lists. (Alexey didn't like the idea) Randy: It's a generalization of Eudora's 'intersects address book' test, and 'add to address book entry' action. Aaron: Automatically adding inbound/outbound addresses to the address book? Kjetil: with "include" in Sieve, it wouldn't be that much of a difference to upload a new list using ManageSieve. But I want it to use your *real* address book which is already stored in LDAP or whatever. Also, duplicating lists is not good. A huge discussion started on whether the identifier for a list has to be an opaque string or an URI: Alexey: I don't like URIs in this case. I don't want to force users to write LDAP URIs, they are just too complex. The whole point of the extension is to make this easier for users. In LDAP case users don't need to know the base DN for search, search criteria (e.g. which object classes), etc. Philip: who says the user will be writing the URI? won't the MUA be generating the URI to match the URI it uses for the address book? Pete suggested that the "mylist" can be a relative reference, so the script engine uses a base URI to resolve it to an absolute URI. Alexey thinks that this would not work with LDAP, for example. Barry likes the notion of a magical URI for "Your data". Kurt thinks it's all too complex. Pete says "Thou shalt support URIs", but "Thou may support arbitrary tokens". Philip: one catch with URIs is that they all have distinct quoting requirements for various fields. Given an arbitrary string, generating an LDAP URI that searches for entries that have a particular attribute with that value is non-trivial. Randy agrees. Philip: have to apply both the LDAP filter escaping *and* the URL escaping, in that order. And finally Alexey talked about ManageSIEVE draft. One update since last IETF, mostly bugfixes. NOTIFY capability text moved here. Open Issues: 1. Reference implementation doesn't implement non synchronizing literals. So the spec will be updated to match the real world. 2. Suggestion from Arnt: Remove anonymous script verification mode. Any objections? Kjetil: Means the UA doesn't have to store the password for syntax checking. Alexey: But clients already cache passwords, at least while they are running. Aaron notes that different users can have different capabilities granted to them, so it is important to authenticate properly. TODO: Consensus to remove the text. 3. IANA registry for response codes Dave Cridland: Could reuse http://www.iana.org/assignments/acap-registrations for response codes. Alexey talked about WG milestones. There was a proposal to update them, but the WG is already 1 month behind on the updated ones. Other business: Alexey wants to talk about Sieve interop on Tuesday or Wednesday. Alexey instructs WG members to drink Czech beer. The meeting has ended. Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3J84tYl054793 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 19 Apr 2007 01:04:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3J84tOD054792; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 01:04:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mout1.freenet.de (mout1.freenet.de [194.97.50.132]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3J84Xmv054762 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 01:04:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from michael.haardt@freenet.ag) Received: from [194.97.55.190] (helo=mx6.freenet.de) by mout1.freenet.de with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from <michael.haardt@freenet.ag>) id 1HeRd2-0005AV-CT for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:04:32 +0200 Received: from nostromo.freenet-ag.de ([194.97.7.6]:57714) by mx6.freenet.de with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (port 25) (Exim 4.67 #6) id 1HeRd2-0002MU-BB for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:04:32 +0200 Received: from michael by nostromo.freenet-ag.de with local (ID michael) (Exim 4.67 #6) id 1HeRd1-0004dt-RS for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:04:31 +0200 Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:04:31 +0200 To: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Re: Collected changes to 3028bis-12, section 2.4.2.4 References: <E1HZ0am-0004Yj-FC@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175676713.26520.91.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ1i6-0004b3-SV@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175686699.26520.160.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ4Yb-0005Im-4o@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <01MF25RJWD1K000053@mauve.mrochek.com> <461BC49D.9010609@isode.com> <461E88D4.3050402@isode.com> <4623CAA1.5050906@isode.com> <4623CB53.3040800@isode.com> <1176766348.32605.10.camel@honbori.ifi.uio.no> In-Reply-To: <1176766348.32605.10.camel@honbori.ifi.uio.no> User-Agent: Heirloom mailx 12.1 6/15/06 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <E1HeRd1-0004dt-RS@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> From: Michael Haardt <michael.haardt@freenet.ag> Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> > "${hex:40${hex:30}}" -> "${hex:400}" > > would demonstrate that only one pass is done, too. Great! > > > "${unicode:1000000}" -> error > > > "${unicode:200000}" -> error Now that we dropped the 6-digit-restriction, we no longer need two examples of range violations. > > And I've missed Michael's favorite: > > > > "${hex:" -> "${hex:" > > I think the fourth example from the top covers this already, that is > "${hex:40". I agree. Everything else is fine with me. I'll adapt my code. Michael Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3IFodN4003862 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 18 Apr 2007 08:50:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3IFodbA003861; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 08:50:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from kalyani.oryx.com (kalyani.oryx.com [195.30.37.30]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3IFoHK6003743 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 08:50:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no) Received: from libertango.oryx.com (libertango.oryx.com [195.30.37.9]) by kalyani.oryx.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9DC64AC22; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 17:50:18 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <PwH/bq/OXkwUideT4oe3XQ.md5@libertango.oryx.com> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 17:49:44 +0200 From: Arnt Gulbrandsen <arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no> To: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Re: Informal Working Group Last Call on draft-freed-sieve-date-index-04.txt Cc: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com>, Ned Freed <ned.freed@mrochek.com>, Aaron Stone <aaron@serendipity.cx> References: <45ED6588.6030704@isode.com> <4623CCF0.1020403@isode.com> <1176797372.19275.231.camel@localhost> <01MFK69LRLWQ000053@mauve.mrochek.com> In-Reply-To: <01MFK69LRLWQ000053@mauve.mrochek.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> Ned Freed writes: > We do and I actually use this sort of construct quite a bit, modulo > proper use of double quotes ;-) We also do "if it is after business > hourse don't send message to my pager" sorts of tests fairly > regularly. If this extension can do that, I want to support it. Will review when I can find a spare moment. Arnt Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3IF7h5B099298 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 18 Apr 2007 08:07:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3IF7hga099297; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 08:07:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mauve.mrochek.com (dsl-66-59-230-40.static.linkline.com [66.59.230.40]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3IF7gXR099291 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 08:07:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ned.freed@mrochek.com) Received: from dkim-sign.mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01MFK69OERWG004C1Y@mauve.mrochek.com> for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 08:07:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-13 Received: from mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01MFEZJN36VK000053@mauve.mrochek.com>; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 08:07:33 -0700 (PDT) Cc: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com>, ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Message-id: <01MFK69LRLWQ000053@mauve.mrochek.com> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 08:05:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Ned Freed <ned.freed@mrochek.com> Subject: Re: Informal Working Group Last Call on draft-freed-sieve-date-index-04.txt In-reply-to: "Your message dated Tue, 17 Apr 2007 01:09:32 -0700" <1176797372.19275.231.camel@localhost> References: <45ED6588.6030704@isode.com> <4623CCF0.1020403@isode.com> <1176797372.19275.231.camel@localhost> To: Aaron Stone <aaron@serendipity.cx> DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nowsp; d=mrochek.com; s=mauve; t=1176908857; h=MIME-version: Content-transfer-encoding:Content-type:Date:From:Subject; b=XhdEd5c BZzKcacZQzgH3KdcQ6cFyEw90nvvvsxkVA6BBieTVjW2PFn7KkIpRqEtSw/vpz2o4HG pazcxEQefU/w== Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> > On Mon, 2007-04-16 at 20:22 +0100, Alexey Melnikov wrote: > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-freed-sieve-date-index-05.txt > > At this point I would like to see a show of hands from people who are > > interested in implementing this extension. > Side question, does anybody else support this yet? We do and I actually use this sort of construct quite a bit, modulo proper use of double quotes ;-) We also do "if it is after business hourse don't send message to my pager" sorts of tests fairly regularly. > if currentdate :matches ´month¡ ´*¡ { set ´month¡ ´${1}¡; } > if currentdate :matches ´year¡ ´*¡ { set ´year¡ ´${1}¡; } > fileinto ´${month}-${year}¡; > (from http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/05aug/slides/sieve-1.pdf) Ned Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3IF36wa098788 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 18 Apr 2007 08:03:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3IF35B8098787; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 08:03:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mauve.mrochek.com (dsl-66-59-230-40.static.linkline.com [66.59.230.40]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3IF2gxI098695 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 08:03:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ned.freed@mrochek.com) Received: from dkim-sign.mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01MFK63HB41C004AJG@mauve.mrochek.com> for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 08:02:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01MFEZJN36VK000053@mauve.mrochek.com>; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 08:02:35 -0700 (PDT) Cc: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> Message-id: <01MFK63GAQRM000053@mauve.mrochek.com> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 07:37:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Ned Freed <ned.freed@mrochek.com> Subject: Re: Informal Working Group Last Call on draft-freed-sieve-date-index-04.txt In-reply-to: "Your message dated Mon, 16 Apr 2007 20:24:29 +0100" <4623CD6D.2030308@isode.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed References: <45ED6588.6030704@isode.com> <4623CCF0.1020403@isode.com> <4623CD6D.2030308@isode.com> To: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nowsp; d=mrochek.com; s=mauve; t=1176908557; h=Date: From:Subject:MIME-version:Content-type; b=0vpP6oyHIYPwgKT1Gcrbsg14X OxDbndMnBUlnecF9jDkFHJlF2CTWd/kGpuFgtvpxM6UXsfpRdLJ+O+vmzqXsQ== Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> > Alexey Melnikov wrote: > > We would like to draw your attention to the following draft: > > <http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-freed-sieve-date-index-04.txt> > > A three week informal last call of this document starts today on > > March 6th 2007 and ends on March 27th 2007 at 6 pm EST. > The informal last call has ended. > I believe that Ned has addressed all outstanding issues in > draft-freed-sieve-date-index-05.txt, so I will recommend its > publication as an RFC. Thanks to all who reviewed the document. The one issue several people have raised is that the document needs more examples. I'm going to push one more revision out for sure to address this. The other (very minor) change I want to make is to allow the date test to optionally work on non RFC2822 format date-time information. There is one other issue that occurred to me recently which I haven't addressed and may be worthin considering. The currentdate test either operaters in a specified time zone or in the "local" zone, which makes sense given those are the only possibly relevant zones. However, the date test either operates in the "local" zone or in a specified zone as well. This provides no way to extract the original zone from the header. The first question is do we care? I'm having trouble coming up with a case where we do, but of course there's always the generic "someone might want to know the original zone". The second question is if we do care, how to implement it? An "original zone" part could be added. Or it could be done with an :originalzone argument. Or it could be done as a distinguished argument value to :sone, e.g. :zone "original" I prefer the third approach personally, but could be persuaded that either of the other two is better. > At this point I would like to see a show of hands from people who are > interested in implementing this extension. FWIW, I have implemented both date and currentdate and we're in the process of transitioning a lot of use of the old setdate test from an early version of the variables draft to currentdate. (Currentdate is much more straightforward and this makes our generated Sieves a bit tidier.) :index is much more difficult for our implementation. I have it mostly working but there are some intricacies involving the editheader extension I still don't have nailed down. > Please reply to this message or directly to Ned and myself. Yes please. And any examples you think make sense would also be welcome. Ned Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3H87asS003416 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 17 Apr 2007 01:07:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3H87agF003415; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 01:07:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.serendipity.cx (serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us [66.92.2.87]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3H87aYQ003407 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 01:07:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from aaron@serendipity.cx) Received: from [192.168.1.158] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.serendipity.cx (Postfix) with ESMTP id E161E50BB; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 01:09:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Informal Working Group Last Call on draft-freed-sieve-date-index-04.txt From: Aaron Stone <aaron@serendipity.cx> To: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> Cc: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org In-Reply-To: <4623CCF0.1020403@isode.com> References: <45ED6588.6030704@isode.com> <4623CCF0.1020403@isode.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-13 Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 01:09:32 -0700 Message-Id: <1176797372.19275.231.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.10.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> On Mon, 2007-04-16 at 20:22 +0100, Alexey Melnikov wrote: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-freed-sieve-date-index-05.txt > At this point I would like to see a show of hands from people who are > interested in implementing this extension. Side question, does anybody else support this yet? if currentdate :matches ´month¡ ´*¡ { set ´month¡ ´${1}¡; } if currentdate :matches ´year¡ ´*¡ { set ´year¡ ´${1}¡; } fileinto ´${month}-${year}¡; (from http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/05aug/slides/sieve-1.pdf) Aaron Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3H87XWh003396 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 17 Apr 2007 01:07:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3H87XKs003395; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 01:07:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.serendipity.cx (serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us [66.92.2.87]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3H87WO2003389 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 01:07:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from aaron@serendipity.cx) Received: from [192.168.1.158] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.serendipity.cx (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DE0E50BB; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 01:09:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Informal Working Group Last Call on draft-freed-sieve-date-index-04.txt From: Aaron Stone <aaron@serendipity.cx> To: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> Cc: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org In-Reply-To: <4623CCF0.1020403@isode.com> References: <45ED6588.6030704@isode.com> <4623CCF0.1020403@isode.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 01:09:28 -0700 Message-Id: <1176797368.19275.230.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.10.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> On Mon, 2007-04-16 at 20:22 +0100, Alexey Melnikov wrote: > > We would like to draw your attention to the following draft: > > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-freed-sieve-date-index-05.txt > At this point I would like to see a show of hands from people who are > interested in implementing this extension. Yes, definitely! Aaron Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3H7qcwa099791 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 17 Apr 2007 00:52:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3H7qcQL099790; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 00:52:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.serendipity.cx (serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us [66.92.2.87]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3H7qID9099750 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 00:52:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from aaron@serendipity.cx) Received: from [192.168.1.158] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.serendipity.cx (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6D8750BB; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 00:54:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Collected changes to 3028bis-12, section 2.4.2.4 From: Aaron Stone <aaron@serendipity.cx> To: Kjetil Torgrim Homme <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no> Cc: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com>, ietf-mta-filters@imc.org In-Reply-To: <1176766348.32605.10.camel@honbori.ifi.uio.no> References: <E1HZ0am-0004Yj-FC@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175676713.26520.91.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ1i6-0004b3-SV@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175686699.26520.160.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ4Yb-0005Im-4o@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <01MF25RJWD1K000053@mauve.mrochek.com> <461BC49D.9010609@isode.com> <461E88D4.3050402@isode.com> <4623CAA1.5050906@isode.com> <4623CB53.3040800@isode.com> <1176766348.32605.10.camel@honbori.ifi.uio.no> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 00:54:13 -0700 Message-Id: <1176796453.19275.212.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.10.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> On Tue, 2007-04-17 at 01:32 +0200, Kjetil Torgrim Homme wrote: > > > "${Unicode:Cool}" -> "${Unicode:Cool}" I continue to find this very unnatural, but I re-read variables, and it does the same thing. There's certainly been lots of thought on the issue, so I won't rehash. Now my thinking is this: if we do end up going for a general ${function:argument} extension down the road, as was previously suggested on the list, we'll have a precedent that the syntactic validity of 'argument' depends upon the semantic value of 'function'. That should be interesting ;-) As for the other items, I thought Kjetil's suggestions about which were superfluous and other edits were spot on. Aaron Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3GNWvhC036305 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 16 Apr 2007 16:32:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3GNWvHH036304; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 16:32:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from pat.uio.no (pat.uio.no [129.240.10.15]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3GNWZUs036201 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 16:32:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kjetilho@ifi.uio.no) Received: from mail-mx4.uio.no ([129.240.10.45]) by pat.uio.no with esmtp (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no>) id 1HdagV-0006hX-3N; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 01:32:35 +0200 Received: from smtp.uio.no ([129.240.10.9] helo=mail-mx4.uio.no) by mail-mx4.uio.no with esmtp (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no>) id 1HdagU-0001cA-RS; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 01:32:35 +0200 Received: from honbori.ifi.uio.no ([129.240.65.192]) by mail-mx4.uio.no with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no>) id 1HdagU-0001bu-P6; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 01:32:34 +0200 Subject: Re: Collected changes to 3028bis-12, section 2.4.2.4 From: Kjetil Torgrim Homme <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no> To: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> Cc: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org In-Reply-To: <4623CB53.3040800@isode.com> References: <E1HZ0am-0004Yj-FC@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175676713.26520.91.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ1i6-0004b3-SV@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175686699.26520.160.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ4Yb-0005Im-4o@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <01MF25RJWD1K000053@mauve.mrochek.com> <461BC49D.9010609@isode.com> <461E88D4.3050402@isode.com> <4623CAA1.5050906@isode.com> <4623CB53.3040800@isode.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 01:32:27 +0200 Message-Id: <1176766348.32605.10.camel@honbori.ifi.uio.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UiO-SPF-Received: X-UiO-Resend: resent X-UiO-SPF-Received: X-UiO-Spam-info: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-4.9, required=12.0, autolearn=disabled, AWL=0.078,UIO_MAIL_IS_INTERNAL=-5) X-UiO-Scanned: A547E30BF0BF1CC4AA7A404F5D5CC706F8C47D4A X-UiO-SPAM-Test: remote_host: 129.240.10.9 spam_score: -48 maxlevel 200 minaction 2 bait 0 mail/h: 177 total 1113085 max/h 8345 blacklist 0 greylist 0 ratelimit 0 Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> On Mon, 2007-04-16 at 20:15 +0100, Alexey Melnikov wrote: > Alexey Melnikov wrote: > > > And add the following paragraph to the end of the section: > > > > The following examples demonstrate valid and invalid encodings > > and how they are handled: the list is quite long, I feel we can demonstrate more than one issue in each example. > > "$${hex:40}" -> "$@" > > "${hex: 40 }" -> "@" > > "${HEX: 40}" -> "@" the second is superfluous. > > "${hex:40" -> "${hex:40" > > "${hex:400}" -> "${hex:400}" these are good. > > "${hex:40${hex:40}}" -> "${hex:40@}" "${hex:40${hex:30}}" -> "${hex:400}" would demonstrate that only one pass is done, too. > > "${unicode:40}" -> "@" > > "${ unicode:40}" -> "${ unicode:40}" > > "${UNICODE:40}" -> "@" if we include the last example, the first in this set is superfluous IMHO. I'd like one of the examples to include backslash quoting, we could extend that example, e.g., "\${UNICODE:40}" -> "@" > > "${UnICoDE:0000040}" -> "@" fine. > > "${Unicode:40}" -> "@" unnecessary, IMHO. > > "${Unicode:Cool}" -> "${Unicode:Cool}" > > "${unicode:1000000}" -> error > > "${unicode:200000}" -> error > > "${Unicode:DF01} -> error ok. > And I've missed Michael's favorite: > > "${hex:" -> "${hex:" I think the fourth example from the top covers this already, that is "${hex:40". -- Kjetil T. Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3GJNIwc084710 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 16 Apr 2007 12:23:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3GJNIVP084709; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 12:23:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3GJNHF8084701 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 12:23:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alexey.melnikov@isode.com) Received: from [172.16.1.99] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id <RiPNJQASklbi@rufus.isode.com>; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 20:23:17 +0100 Message-ID: <4623CCF0.1020403@isode.com> Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 20:22:24 +0100 From: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Re: Informal Working Group Last Call on draft-freed-sieve-date-index-04.txt References: <45ED6588.6030704@isode.com> In-Reply-To: <45ED6588.6030704@isode.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> Alexey Melnikov wrote: > We would like to draw your attention to the following draft: > > <http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-freed-sieve-date-index-04.txt> > > A three week informal last call of this document starts today on March > 6th 2007 and ends on March 27th 2007 at 6 pm EST. The informal last call has ended. I believe that Ned has addressed all outstanding issues in draft-freed-sieve-date-index-05.txt, so I will recommend its publication as an RFC. Thanks to all who reviewed the document. At this point I would like to see a show of hands from people who are interested in implementing this extension. Please reply to this message or directly to Ned and myself. Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3GJGPIn083127 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 16 Apr 2007 12:16:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3GJGPmp083125; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 12:16:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3GJGOj8083113 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 12:16:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alexey.melnikov@isode.com) Received: from [172.16.1.99] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id <RiPLhwASkre3@rufus.isode.com>; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 20:16:23 +0100 Message-ID: <4623CB53.3040800@isode.com> Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 20:15:31 +0100 From: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> CC: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Re: Collected changes to 3028bis-12, section 2.4.2.4 References: <E1HZ0am-0004Yj-FC@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175676713.26520.91.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ1i6-0004b3-SV@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175686699.26520.160.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ4Yb-0005Im-4o@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <01MF25RJWD1K000053@mauve.mrochek.com> <461BC49D.9010609@isode.com> <461E88D4.3050402@isode.com> <4623CAA1.5050906@isode.com> In-Reply-To: <4623CAA1.5050906@isode.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> Alexey Melnikov wrote: > And add the following paragraph to the end of the section: > > The following examples demonstrate valid and invalid encodings > and how they are handled: > "$${hex:40}" -> "$@" > "${hex: 40 }" -> "@" > "${HEX: 40}" -> "@" > "${hex:40" -> "${hex:40" > "${hex:400}" -> "${hex:400}" > "${hex:40${hex:40}}" -> "${hex:40@}" > "${unicode:40}" -> "@" > "${ unicode:40}" -> "${ unicode:40}" > "${UNICODE:40}" -> "@" > "${UnICoDE:0000040}" -> "@" > "${Unicode:40}" -> "@" > "${Unicode:Cool}" -> "${Unicode:Cool}" > "${unicode:1000000}" -> error > "${unicode:200000}" -> error > "${Unicode:DF01} -> error And I've missed Michael's favorite: "${hex:" -> "${hex:" Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3GJDTnU082650 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 16 Apr 2007 12:13:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3GJDTCS082649; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 12:13:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3GJDSmd082635 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 12:13:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alexey.melnikov@isode.com) Received: from [172.16.1.99] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id <RiPK1gASkl6b@rufus.isode.com>; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 20:13:26 +0100 Message-ID: <4623CAA1.5050906@isode.com> Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 20:12:33 +0100 From: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Collected changes to 3028bis-12, section 2.4.2.4 References: <E1HZ0am-0004Yj-FC@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175676713.26520.91.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ1i6-0004b3-SV@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175686699.26520.160.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ4Yb-0005Im-4o@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <01MF25RJWD1K000053@mauve.mrochek.com> <461BC49D.9010609@isode.com> <461E88D4.3050402@isode.com> In-Reply-To: <461E88D4.3050402@isode.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> Here is the collected list of changes to section 2.4.2.4: 3rd paragraph: OLD: encoded-arb-octets = "${hex:" hex-pair-seq "}" hex-pair-seq = hex-pair *(WSP hex-pair) ^^^ hex-pair = 1*2HEXDIG NEW: blank = WSP / CRLF encoded-arb-octets = "${hex:" hex-pair-seq "}" hex-pair-seq = *blank hex-pair *(1*blank hex-pair) *blank ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^ hex-pair = 1*2HEXDIG 5th paragraph: OLD: encoded-unicode-char = "${unicode:" unicode-hex-seq "}" unicode-hex-seq = unicode-hex *(WSP unicode-hex) ^^^ unicode-hex = 1*6HEXDIG ^^^ NEW: encoded-unicode-char = "${unicode:" unicode-hex-seq "}" unicode-hex-seq = *blank unicode-hex *(1*blank unicode-hex) *blank ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^ unicode-hex = 1*HEXDIG ^^ Insert after the following paragraph: It is an error for a script to use a hexadecimal value that isn't in either the range 0 to D7FF or the range E000 to 10FFFF. (The range D800 to DFFF is excluded as those character numbers are only used as part of the UTF-16 encoding form and are not applicable to the UTF-8 encoding that the syntax here represents.) a new paragraph: Note: Implementations MUST NOT raise an error for an out of range Unicode value unless the sequence containing it is well-formed according to the grammar. 8th paragraph: OLD: In the following script, message A is discarded, since the specified ^ test string is equivalent to "$$$". NEW: In the following script, message B is discarded, since the specified ^ test string is equivalent to "$$$". And add the following paragraph to the end of the section: The following examples demonstrate valid and invalid encodings and how they are handled: "$${hex:40}" -> "$@" "${hex: 40 }" -> "@" "${HEX: 40}" -> "@" "${hex:40" -> "${hex:40" "${hex:400}" -> "${hex:400}" "${hex:40${hex:40}}" -> "${hex:40@}" "${unicode:40}" -> "@" "${ unicode:40}" -> "${ unicode:40}" "${UNICODE:40}" -> "@" "${UnICoDE:0000040}" -> "@" "${Unicode:40}" -> "@" "${Unicode:Cool}" -> "${Unicode:Cool}" "${unicode:1000000}" -> error "${unicode:200000}" -> error "${Unicode:DF01} -> error Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3GDkc2W021175 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 16 Apr 2007 06:46:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3GDkcGm021174; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 06:46:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3GDkHxq021070 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 06:46:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alexey.melnikov@isode.com) Received: from [172.16.1.99] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id <RiN-JwASkqWd@rufus.isode.com>; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 14:46:15 +0100 Message-ID: <46237DF0.1030504@isode.com> Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 14:45:20 +0100 From: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: A nearly completed draft: draft-crispin-collation-unicasemap-02.txt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> Hi, This is somewhat related to the Sieve WG, so I would like to solicit reviews of draft-crispin-collation-unicasemap-02.txt. The document defines a case-insensitive comparator that operates on Unicode strings and is better than i;ascii-casemap for human readable text. Please let me know if: 1). you review the document and find it ready/non-ready for publication; 2). you are interested in implementing this in your Sieve engine. Thanks, Alexey Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3G2jwJB049425 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 15 Apr 2007 19:45:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3G2jwlD049424; Sun, 15 Apr 2007 19:45:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mauve.mrochek.com (dsl-66-59-230-40.static.linkline.com [66.59.230.40]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3G2jbTQ049411 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Sun, 15 Apr 2007 19:45:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ned.freed@mrochek.com) Received: from dkim-sign.mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01MFGNQY2HN4003JZ4@mauve.mrochek.com> for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2007 19:45:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01MFGNOGFTCG00004X@mauve.mrochek.com>; Sun, 15 Apr 2007 19:45:28 -0700 (PDT) Cc: Ned Freed <ned.freed@mrochek.com>, Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com>, ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Message-id: <01MFGNQVQFFE00004X@mauve.mrochek.com> Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 19:44:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Ned Freed <ned.freed@mrochek.com> Subject: Re: Poll: consensus to change the encoded-character extension In-reply-to: "Your message dated Mon, 16 Apr 2007 03:11:11 +0200" <1176685872.29035.28.camel@honbori.ifi.uio.no> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN References: <E1HZ0am-0004Yj-FC@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175676713.26520.91.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ1i6-0004b3-SV@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175686699.26520.160.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ4Yb-0005Im-4o@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <01MF25RJWD1K000053@mauve.mrochek.com> <461BC49D.9010609@isode.com> <461E88D4.3050402@isode.com> <01MFGB66HBPQ002UKR@mauve.mrochek.com> <1176685872.29035.28.camel@honbori.ifi.uio.no> To: Kjetil Torgrim Homme <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no> DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nowsp; d=mrochek.com; s=mauve; t=1176691531; h=Date: From:Subject:MIME-version:Content-type; b=c3EjfnoUHhff4fZUxwfDLuz6h SRu93SSoiragC1qKqLdk/cn1QVGAs2COJZcuHf5+fmJ8qbWx38GMoRia6oRZw== Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> > On Sun, 2007-04-15 at 13:17 -0700, Ned Freed wrote: > > I'm fine with this. I do note, however, that error handling here is kinda > > tricky - since you cannot be sure until you reach the } that the syntax > > rules are met, you have to flag any errors you see in unicode values and > > only report them at the end. Perhaps a note about this would be in order... > yes, I guess it's easy to trip over this, causing a potential > interoperability issue. suggested text: > It is an error for a script to use a hexadecimal value that > isn't in either the range 0 to D7FF or the range E000 to > 10FFFF.[...] > Note: Implementations MUST NOT raise an error for an out of > range Unicode value unless the sequence containing it is > well-formed according to the grammar. Nice wording! I think thie definitely belongs in the specification. Ned Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3G1Bftw042702 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 15 Apr 2007 18:11:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3G1BfHo042701; Sun, 15 Apr 2007 18:11:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from pat.uio.no (pat.uio.no [129.240.10.15]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3G1BJDG042687 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Sun, 15 Apr 2007 18:11:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kjetilho@ifi.uio.no) Received: from mail-mx4.uio.no ([129.240.10.45]) by pat.uio.no with esmtp (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no>) id 1HdFkT-0005on-Is; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 03:11:17 +0200 Received: from smtp.uio.no ([129.240.10.9] helo=mail-mx4.uio.no) by mail-mx4.uio.no with esmtp (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no>) id 1HdFkT-0002wE-Bq; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 03:11:17 +0200 Received: from honbori.ifi.uio.no ([129.240.65.192]) by mail-mx4.uio.no with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no>) id 1HdFkT-0002w9-9F; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 03:11:17 +0200 Subject: Re: Poll: consensus to change the encoded-character extension From: Kjetil Torgrim Homme <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no> To: Ned Freed <ned.freed@mrochek.com> Cc: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com>, ietf-mta-filters@imc.org In-Reply-To: <01MFGB66HBPQ002UKR@mauve.mrochek.com> References: <E1HZ0am-0004Yj-FC@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175676713.26520.91.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ1i6-0004b3-SV@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175686699.26520.160.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ4Yb-0005Im-4o@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <01MF25RJWD1K000053@mauve.mrochek.com> <461BC49D.9010609@isode.com> <461E88D4.3050402@isode.com> <01MFGB66HBPQ002UKR@mauve.mrochek.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 03:11:11 +0200 Message-Id: <1176685872.29035.28.camel@honbori.ifi.uio.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UiO-SPF-Received: X-UiO-Resend: resent X-UiO-SPF-Received: X-UiO-Spam-info: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-4.9, required=12.0, autolearn=disabled, AWL=0.078,UIO_MAIL_IS_INTERNAL=-5) X-UiO-Scanned: 37C8560865B5C4F74D3C7A87AE66E86DDF6468FB X-UiO-SPAM-Test: remote_host: 129.240.10.9 spam_score: -48 maxlevel 200 minaction 2 bait 0 mail/h: 25 total 1071520 max/h 7466 blacklist 0 greylist 0 ratelimit 0 Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> On Sun, 2007-04-15 at 13:17 -0700, Ned Freed wrote: > I'm fine with this. I do note, however, that error handling here is kinda > tricky - since you cannot be sure until you reach the } that the syntax > rules are met, you have to flag any errors you see in unicode values and > only report them at the end. Perhaps a note about this would be in order... yes, I guess it's easy to trip over this, causing a potential interoperability issue. suggested text: It is an error for a script to use a hexadecimal value that isn't in either the range 0 to D7FF or the range E000 to 10FFFF.[...] Note: Implementations MUST NOT raise an error for an out of range Unicode value unless the sequence containing it is well-formed according to the grammar. -- Kjetil T. Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3FKjd2D020374 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 15 Apr 2007 13:45:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3FKjdrg020373; Sun, 15 Apr 2007 13:45:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mauve.mrochek.com (dsl-66-59-230-40.static.linkline.com [66.59.230.40]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3FKjI4X020360 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Sun, 15 Apr 2007 13:45:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ned.freed@mrochek.com) Received: from dkim-sign.mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01MFGB68MJDS003YAF@mauve.mrochek.com> for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2007 13:45:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01MFG9MF9040002UKR@mauve.mrochek.com>; Sun, 15 Apr 2007 13:45:11 -0700 (PDT) Cc: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Message-id: <01MFGB66HBPQ002UKR@mauve.mrochek.com> Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 13:17:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Ned Freed <ned.freed@mrochek.com> Subject: Re: Poll: consensus to change the encoded-character extension In-reply-to: "Your message dated Thu, 12 Apr 2007 20:30:28 +0100" <461E88D4.3050402@isode.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed References: <E1HZ0am-0004Yj-FC@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175676713.26520.91.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ1i6-0004b3-SV@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175686699.26520.160.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ4Yb-0005Im-4o@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <01MF25RJWD1K000053@mauve.mrochek.com> <461BC49D.9010609@isode.com> <461E88D4.3050402@isode.com> To: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nowsp; d=mrochek.com; s=mauve; t=1176669914; h=Date: From:Subject:MIME-version:Content-type; b=BJ36HAiCCB8EBu7ejHXZMZtfg GRCLWJRr/KZAljieidVy6Kd5t9xSfrvl1E3X+k9W739kTeXwTPYX9d7rluXEw== Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> > The update proposal is like this: > OLD: > encoded-arb-octets = "${hex:" hex-pair-seq "}" > hex-pair-seq = hex-pair *(WSP hex-pair) > ^^^ > NEW: > blank = WSP / CRLF > encoded-arb-octets = "${hex:" hex-pair-seq "}" > hex-pair-seq = *blank hex-pair *(1*blank hex-pair) *blank > ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^ > OLD: > encoded-unicode-char = "${unicode:" unicode-hex-seq "}" > unicode-hex-seq = unicode-hex *(WSP unicode-hex) > ^^^ > NEW: > encoded-unicode-char = "${unicode:" unicode-hex-seq "}" > unicode-hex-seq = *blank unicode-hex *(1*blank unicode-hex) *blank > ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^ > unicode-hex = 1*6HEXDIG > Does this look right? Modulo the change to make unicode-hex to 1*HEXDIG, yes. > Note that people have suggested some other editorial changes in the same > section, e.g. extra examples. I will post a message on them separately. > For now I want to get closure on the proposed syntax. I'm find with this. I do note, however, that error handling here is kinda tricky - since you cannot be sure until you reach the } that the syntax rules are met, you have to flag any errors you see in unicode values and only report them at the end. Perhaps a note about this would be in order... Ned Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3DIZPpq066248 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 13 Apr 2007 11:35:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3DIZPgw066247; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 11:35:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.serendipity.cx (serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us [66.92.2.87]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3DIZ4LB066236 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 11:35:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from aaron@serendipity.cx) Received: from serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us (unknown [10.10.10.34]) by mail.serendipity.cx (Postfix) with SMTP id 99980D485; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 11:36:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 18:36:38 -0000 To: "Alexey Melnikov" <alexey.melnikov@isode.com>, "Stephan Bosch" <stephan@rename-it.nl> Subject: Re: Conflict of draft-martin-managesieve-07.txt vs draft-ietf-sieve-3028bis-12.txt From: "Aaron Stone" <aaron@serendipity.cx> X-Mailer: TWIG 2.8.3 Message-ID: <twig.1176489398.28614@serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us> In-Reply-To: <461F3582.2030407@isode.com> References: <46194747.8080701@rename-it.nl>, <46194747.8080701@rename-it.nl> Cc: <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org> Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> On Fri, Apr 13, 2007, Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> said: > > Stephan Bosch wrote: > >> Hello Alexey, > > Hi Stephan, > >> I am implementing a managesieve daemon and it seems that recent >> (draft) changes to the sieve specification will conflict with the >> current managesieve specification (at least the examples given therein). >> >> The new sieve specification states in chapter 6 'Extensibility': >> >> Any extensions to this language MUST define a capability string that >> uniquely identifies that extension. Capability string are case- >> sensitive; for example, "foo" and "FOO" are different capabilities. If >> a new version of an extension changes the functionality of a >> previously defined extension, it MUST use a different name. Extensions >> may register a set of related capabilities by registering just a >> unique prefix for them. The "comparator-" prefix is an example of >> this. The prefix MUST end with a "-" and MUST NOT overlap any >> existing registrations. >> >> The latest managesieve draft gives the following example in section >> 1.8 'Capabilities': >> >> S: "IMPlemENTATION" "Example1 ManageSieved v001" >> S: "SASl" "DIGEST-MD5 GSSAPI" >> S: "SIeVE" "FILEINTO VACATION" >> S: "StaRTTLS" >> S: "NOTIFY" "xmpp mailto" >> S: OK >> >> The capability fileinto for example is replied in upper case and the >> sieve specifications currently define all extensions in lower case. > > Good catch. I've fixed examples in my copy, so this will be fixed in -08. I still don't understand why we've created the capability prefix registry and then decided not to use it for notify. This seems silly: S: "Implementation" "ManageSieved" S: "SASL" "DIGEST-MD5" > S: "SIEVE" "fileinto vacation comparator-i;ascii-numeric" S: "STARTTLS" > S: "NOTIFY" "xmpp mailto" S: OK I suggested this, but Alexey and others pointed out that it breaks extant servers and clients quite badly: S: "Implementation" "ManageSieved" S: "SASL" "DIGEST-MD5" S: "SIEVE" "fileinto vacation" S: "STARTTLS" > S: "NOTIFY" "xmpp mailto" > S: "COMPARATOR" "i;ascii-numeric" S: OK Since we have existing implementations that expect comparator-foo, and we created an IANA registry for extension prefixes, notify should use that: S: "Implementation" "ManageSieved" S: "SASL" "DIGEST-MD5" > S: "SIEVE" "fileinto vacation comparator-i;ascii-numeric notify-xmpp > S: notify-mailto" S: "STARTTLS" S: OK In draft-ietf-notify-07, I suggest removing this from IANA: 8. IANA Considerations The following template specifies the IANA registration of the notify Sieve extension specified in this document: - To: iana@iana.org - Subject: Registration of new Sieve extension - Capability name: enotify - Description: adds the 'notify' action for notifying user about the - received message. It also provides two new test: valid_notify_method - checks notification URIs for validity; notify_method_capability can - check recipients capabilities. - RFC number: this RFC - Contact address: - The Sieve discussion list <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org> This information should be added to the list of sieve extensions given on http://www.iana.org/assignments/sieve-extensions. And replace with this (follows the format used in draft-3028bis-12): Capability name: enotify Description: adds the 'notify' action for notifying a user via some external method that a message has arrived, adds the 'valid_notification_method' test to check a notification URI for validity, adds the 'notify_method_capability' test to check if a notification method supports additional capabilities. transport sender and recipient address RFC number: this RFC (Sieve notify base spec) Contact address: The Sieve discussion list <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org> Capability name: notify-* (anything starting with "notify-") Description: adds the indicated notification method for use with the notify action RFC number: this RFC (Sieve notify base spec) Contact address: The Sieve discussion list <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org> I think we also need a notification capability registry for the notification method documents to register their method-specific capabilities with. The test in draft-ietf-sieve-notify-07.txt is this: This document defines a single notification-capability value "online", which is described below. Additional notification- capability values may be defined by a Standard Track or Experimental RFC. Is that sufficient without an IANA registry? Aaron Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3DGt6CQ055435 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 13 Apr 2007 09:55:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3DGt6B9055434; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 09:55:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from foon.sendmail.com (smtp-out.sendmail.com [209.246.26.45]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3DGsjGc055397 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 09:55:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from guenther+mtafilters@sendmail.com) Received: from [192.168.123.102] (71-218-108-183.hlrn.qwest.net [71.218.108.183]) (authenticated bits=0) by foon.sendmail.com (Switch-3.2.5/Switch-3.2.0) with ESMTP id l3DGv6Qb024279 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 13 Apr 2007 09:57:08 -0700 X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v0.5.1 foon.sendmail.com l3DGv6Qb024279 DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/simple; d=sendmail.com; s=tls.dkim; t=1176483430; bh=5uZzSP9ZLsS6pSaE3ekCcnZAsfo=; h=X-DomainKeys: DomainKey-Signature:Date:From:X-X-Sender:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To: Message-ID:References:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=SwaMan9yJCQHY9trY1Oz9DP8Cs8smmIU2eAIeS aCnoaOnfWiwdMCygZ5gNL5SlW9oBez9CpcuZT2qFZJ/eKYgh4SPpLLKQOmHGwppdABe 70U+e6UOXhFpr3ks04JkpfDYLCje+Bb7os+PmVAApsov9a6zBLAwZpYxAlA2i/TdYs= X-DomainKeys: Sendmail DomainKeys Filter v0.4.1 foon.sendmail.com l3DGv6Qb024279 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=tls; d=sendmail.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=date:from:x-x-sender:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id: references:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=iyFv+oQxvNBa7GescFmZ4pciO/7M0rITLsqoiFEu9xLxCTBzgRq82Zz68V1t5iA9b a1/hWoHbG7YJkC2C+bHDqj9XCJZqLXrULX/kuee48UnYy08scCtHYgd/8zJ32ran6B+ hGLmcimJuzPNDuCd2XxaGdQh9t2WFQJ5kqDJj2k= Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 10:54:11 -0600 From: Philip Guenther <guenther+mtafilters@sendmail.com> X-X-Sender: guenther@vanye.mho.net To: Michael Haardt <michael.haardt@freenet.ag> cc: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Re: Poll: consensus to change the encoded-character extension In-Reply-To: <20070413072010.GA6648@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.64.0704131052270.12242@vanye.mho.net> References: <E1HZ0am-0004Yj-FC@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175676713.26520.91.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ1i6-0004b3-SV@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175686699.26520.160.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ4Yb-0005Im-4o@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <01MF25RJWD1K000053@mauve.mrochek.com> <461BC49D.9010609@isode.com> <461E88D4.3050402@isode.com> <E1Hc5bG-0001Vf-2O@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <461E9836.7010308@isode.com> <20070413072010.GA6648@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> On Fri, 13 Apr 2007, Michael Haardt wrote: > On Thu, Apr 12, 2007 at 09:36:06PM +0100, Alexey Melnikov wrote: ... >> BTW, are "${hex:"/"£{unicode:" prefixes case insensitive? I say yes. > > According to the grammar, they are. Given that most everything in > sieve is case insensitive, it makes sense, too. Yes, definitely. Philip Guenther Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3DBuATO026090 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 13 Apr 2007 04:56:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3DBuA4a026089; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 04:56:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3DBtnH9026066 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 04:56:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alexey.melnikov@isode.com) Received: from [172.16.1.99] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id <Rh9vwwAkQrDR@rufus.isode.com>; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 12:55:47 +0100 Message-ID: <461F3582.2030407@isode.com> Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 08:47:14 +0100 From: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: Stephan Bosch <stephan@rename-it.nl> CC: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Re: Conflict of draft-martin-managesieve-07.txt vs draft-ietf-sieve-3028bis-12.txt References: <46194747.8080701@rename-it.nl> In-Reply-To: <46194747.8080701@rename-it.nl> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> Stephan Bosch wrote: > Hello Alexey, Hi Stephan, > I am implementing a managesieve daemon and it seems that recent > (draft) changes to the sieve specification will conflict with the > current managesieve specification (at least the examples given therein). > > The new sieve specification states in chapter 6 'Extensibility': > > Any extensions to this language MUST define a capability string that > uniquely identifies that extension. Capability string are case- > sensitive; for example, "foo" and "FOO" are different capabilities. If > a new version of an extension changes the functionality of a > previously defined extension, it MUST use a different name. Extensions > may register a set of related capabilities by registering just a > unique prefix for them. The "comparator-" prefix is an example of > this. The prefix MUST end with a "-" and MUST NOT overlap any > existing registrations. > > The latest managesieve draft gives the following example in section > 1.8 'Capabilities': > > S: "IMPlemENTATION" "Example1 ManageSieved v001" > S: "SASl" "DIGEST-MD5 GSSAPI" > S: "SIeVE" "FILEINTO VACATION" > S: "StaRTTLS" > S: "NOTIFY" "xmpp mailto" > S: OK > > The capability fileinto for example is replied in upper case and the > sieve specifications currently define all extensions in lower case. Good catch. I've fixed examples in my copy, so this will be fixed in -08. > I based my original implementation on this example and I encountered > conflicts with some clients. I initially assumed these clients were > the cause. But, actually this is not quite clear from the original > Sieve specification. The new draft Sieve specification explains this > much more explicitly, so you might want to update the managesieve > specification in this respect as well. Regards, Alexey Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3D7Kb8s000356 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 13 Apr 2007 00:20:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3D7Kbd7000355; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 00:20:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mout0.freenet.de (mout0.freenet.de [194.97.50.131]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3D7KFRn000337 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 00:20:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from michael.haardt@freenet.ag) Received: from [194.97.50.138] (helo=mx0.freenet.de) by mout0.freenet.de with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from <michael.haardt@freenet.ag>) id 1HcG4t-0001Yt-1j for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 09:20:15 +0200 Received: from nostromo.freenet-ag.de ([194.97.7.6]:60906) by mx0.freenet.de with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (port 25) (Exim 4.67 #6) id 1HcG4t-0000WK-0V for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 09:20:15 +0200 Received: from michael by nostromo.freenet-ag.de with local (ID michael) (Exim 4.67 #6) id 1HcG4o-0001jc-GP for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 09:20:10 +0200 Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 09:20:10 +0200 From: Michael Haardt <michael.haardt@freenet.ag> To: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Re: Poll: consensus to change the encoded-character extension Message-ID: <20070413072010.GA6648@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> References: <E1HZ0am-0004Yj-FC@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175676713.26520.91.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ1i6-0004b3-SV@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175686699.26520.160.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ4Yb-0005Im-4o@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <01MF25RJWD1K000053@mauve.mrochek.com> <461BC49D.9010609@isode.com> <461E88D4.3050402@isode.com> <E1Hc5bG-0001Vf-2O@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <461E9836.7010308@isode.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <461E9836.7010308@isode.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> On Thu, Apr 12, 2007 at 09:36:06PM +0100, Alexey Melnikov wrote: > >IMHO, the leading and trailing white space is not part of the sequence. > >If you think different, then put it back into hex-seq. > > > I think they are part of the hex-seq, but this is not something to argue > about. Indeed, it's not the same grammar, but still the same language. :) > I think we've only agreed to remove length restriction on "${unicode:". Oops. Well, with hex I don't mind pairs, in case anybody here likes them more. > BTW, are "${hex:"/"£{unicode:" prefixes case insensitive? I say yes. According to the grammar, they are. Given that most everything in sieve is case insensitive, it makes sense, too. Michael Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3CKbLJh043473 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 12 Apr 2007 13:37:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3CKbLrX043472; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 13:37:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3CKb0dK043445 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 13:37:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alexey.melnikov@isode.com) Received: from [172.16.1.99] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id <Rh6YawAkQhgC@rufus.isode.com>; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 21:36:59 +0100 Message-ID: <461E9836.7010308@isode.com> Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 21:36:06 +0100 From: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: Michael Haardt <michael.haardt@freenet.ag> CC: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Re: Poll: consensus to change the encoded-character extension References: <E1HZ0am-0004Yj-FC@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175676713.26520.91.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ1i6-0004b3-SV@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175686699.26520.160.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ4Yb-0005Im-4o@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <01MF25RJWD1K000053@mauve.mrochek.com> <461BC49D.9010609@isode.com> <461E88D4.3050402@isode.com> <E1Hc5bG-0001Vf-2O@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> In-Reply-To: <E1Hc5bG-0001Vf-2O@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> Michael Haardt wrote: >>The update proposal is like this: >> >>NEW: >> blank = WSP / CRLF >> encoded-arb-octets = "${hex:" hex-pair-seq "}" >> hex-pair-seq = *blank hex-pair *(1*blank hex-pair) *blank >> ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^ >> >> >The white space looks fine, but you missed defining hex-pair. > > No, it just stays as it is defined now. That is why I haven't listed it. >>NEW: >> encoded-unicode-char = "${unicode:" unicode-hex-seq "}" >> unicode-hex-seq = *blank unicode-hex *(1*blank unicode-hex) *blank >> ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^ >> unicode-hex = 1*6HEXDIG >> >> > >You did define unicode-hex here, but unchanged, not as 1*HEXDIG. > Ah, sorry about that. Yes, I meant "1*HEXDIG". >How >about that? > > blank = WSP / CRLF > encoded-arb-octets = "${hex:" *blank hex-seq *blank "}" > encoded-unicode-chars = "${unicode:" *blank hex-seq *blank "}" > hex-seq = hex *(1*blank hex) > hex = 1*HEXDIG > >IMHO, the leading and trailing white space is not part of the sequence. >If you think different, then put it back into hex-seq. > I think they are part of the hex-seq, but this is not something to argue about. >If we omit the length restriction, we may as well merge the sequences into one >production. > > I think we've only agreed to remove length restriction on "${unicode:". BTW, are "${hex:"/"£{unicode:" prefixes case insensitive? I say yes. Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3CK9NGW041150 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 12 Apr 2007 13:09:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3CK9N3H041149; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 13:09:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mout1.freenet.de (mout1.freenet.de [194.97.50.132]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3CK91sN041106 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 13:09:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from michael.haardt@freenet.ag) Received: from [194.97.50.151] (helo=mx10.freenet.de) by mout1.freenet.de with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from <michael.haardt@freenet.ag>) id 1Hc5bG-0003Ai-H2 for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 22:08:58 +0200 Received: from nostromo.freenet-ag.de ([194.97.7.6]:47756) by mx10.freenet.de with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (port 25) (Exim 4.67 #6) id 1Hc5bG-0007pF-GM for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 22:08:58 +0200 Received: from michael by nostromo.freenet-ag.de with local (ID michael) (Exim 4.67 #6) id 1Hc5bG-0001Vf-2O for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 22:08:58 +0200 Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 22:08:58 +0200 To: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Re: Poll: consensus to change the encoded-character extension References: <E1HZ0am-0004Yj-FC@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175676713.26520.91.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ1i6-0004b3-SV@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175686699.26520.160.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ4Yb-0005Im-4o@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <01MF25RJWD1K000053@mauve.mrochek.com> <461BC49D.9010609@isode.com> <461E88D4.3050402@isode.com> In-Reply-To: <461E88D4.3050402@isode.com> User-Agent: Heirloom mailx 12.1 6/15/06 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <E1Hc5bG-0001Vf-2O@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> From: Michael Haardt <michael.haardt@freenet.ag> Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> > The update proposal is like this: > > NEW: > blank = WSP / CRLF > encoded-arb-octets = "${hex:" hex-pair-seq "}" > hex-pair-seq = *blank hex-pair *(1*blank hex-pair) *blank > ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^ The white space looks fine, but you missed defining hex-pair. > NEW: > encoded-unicode-char = "${unicode:" unicode-hex-seq "}" > unicode-hex-seq = *blank unicode-hex *(1*blank unicode-hex) *blank > ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^ > unicode-hex = 1*6HEXDIG You did define unicode-hex here, but unchanged, not as 1*HEXDIG. How about that? blank = WSP / CRLF encoded-arb-octets = "${hex:" *blank hex-seq *blank "}" encoded-unicode-chars = "${unicode:" *blank hex-seq *blank "}" hex-seq = hex *(1*blank hex) hex = 1*HEXDIG IMHO, the leading and trailing white space is not part of the sequence. If you think different, then put it back into hex-seq. If we omit the length restriction, we may as well merge the sequences into one production. Michael Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3CJelIB038508 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 12 Apr 2007 12:40:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3CJelRs038507; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 12:40:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3CJekUY038500 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 12:40:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alexey.melnikov@isode.com) Received: from [172.16.1.99] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id <Rh6LOwAkQnmp@rufus.isode.com>; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 20:40:46 +0100 Message-ID: <461E8B08.8010106@isode.com> Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 20:39:52 +0100 From: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kjetil Torgrim Homme <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no> CC: Aaron Stone <aaron@serendipity.cx>, ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Re: Poll: consensus to change the encoded-character extension References: <E1HZ0am-0004Yj-FC@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175676713.26520.91.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ1i6-0004b3-SV@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175686699.26520.160.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ4Yb-0005Im-4o@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <01MF25RJWD1K000053@mauve.mrochek.com> <461BC49D.9010609@isode.com> , <461BC49D.9010609@isode.com> <twig.1176232344.73145@serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us> <1176234701.26687.172.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> In-Reply-To: <1176234701.26687.172.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> Kjetil Torgrim Homme wrote: >On Tue, 2007-04-10 at 19:12 +0000, Aaron Stone wrote: > > >>Something like this: >> >> encoded-character = "${" encoded-char-scheme ":" encoded-char-seq >>"}" >> encoded-char-scheme = hex / unicode >> encoded-char-seq = *(LWSP WSP 1*HEXDIG) LWSP >> >> >if we allow ${hex:100} in the grammar, we need to say something in the >text about the valid range. I would prefer to stick to separate >productions for encoded-arb-octets and encoded-unicode-char to keep the >text simple and to minimise the change to the text. > > Speaking as a contributor: I agree. >>Note that LWSP is optional by definition, >> >> >ouch, good catch! > > Indeed. Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3CJVLqr037589 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 12 Apr 2007 12:31:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3CJVLDe037588; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 12:31:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3CJVK0i037582 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 12:31:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alexey.melnikov@isode.com) Received: from [172.16.1.99] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id <Rh6JBwAkQqd5@rufus.isode.com>; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 20:31:19 +0100 Message-ID: <461E88D4.3050402@isode.com> Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 20:30:28 +0100 From: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Re: Poll: consensus to change the encoded-character extension References: <E1HZ0am-0004Yj-FC@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175676713.26520.91.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ1i6-0004b3-SV@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175686699.26520.160.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ4Yb-0005Im-4o@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <01MF25RJWD1K000053@mauve.mrochek.com> <461BC49D.9010609@isode.com> In-Reply-To: <461BC49D.9010609@isode.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> Alexey Melnikov wrote: > From my reading of the mailing list it sounds like there is consensus > to do the following change: > > OLD: > encoded-arb-octets = "${hex:" hex-pair-seq "}" > hex-pair-seq = hex-pair *(WSP hex-pair) > ^^^ > NEW: > encoded-arb-octets = "${hex:" hex-pair-seq "}" > hex-pair-seq = hex-pair *(LWSP hex-pair) > ^^^^ > > OLD: > encoded-unicode-char = "${unicode:" unicode-hex-seq "}" > unicode-hex-seq = unicode-hex *(WSP unicode-hex) > ^^^ > NEW: > encoded-unicode-char = "${unicode:" unicode-hex-seq "}" > unicode-hex-seq = unicode-hex *(LWSP unicode-hex) > ^^^ > unicode-hex = 1*6HEXDIG > > > And this needs to be updated if people want to allow for trailing LSWP > (before the closing "}") The update proposal is like this: OLD: encoded-arb-octets = "${hex:" hex-pair-seq "}" hex-pair-seq = hex-pair *(WSP hex-pair) ^^^ NEW: blank = WSP / CRLF encoded-arb-octets = "${hex:" hex-pair-seq "}" hex-pair-seq = *blank hex-pair *(1*blank hex-pair) *blank ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^ OLD: encoded-unicode-char = "${unicode:" unicode-hex-seq "}" unicode-hex-seq = unicode-hex *(WSP unicode-hex) ^^^ NEW: encoded-unicode-char = "${unicode:" unicode-hex-seq "}" unicode-hex-seq = *blank unicode-hex *(1*blank unicode-hex) *blank ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^ unicode-hex = 1*6HEXDIG Does this look right? Note that people have suggested some other editorial changes in the same section, e.g. extra examples. I will post a message on them separately. For now I want to get closure on the proposed syntax. Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3CJLKik035995 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 12 Apr 2007 12:21:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3CJLKO5035994; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 12:21:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3CJLKrU035988 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 12:21:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alexey.melnikov@isode.com) Received: from [172.16.1.99] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id <Rh6GrgAkQsQ4@rufus.isode.com>; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 20:21:18 +0100 Message-ID: <461E867C.6060407@isode.com> Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 20:20:28 +0100 From: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Re: Poll: consensus to change the encoded-character extension References: <E1HZ0am-0004Yj-FC@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175676713.26520.91.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ1i6-0004b3-SV@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175686699.26520.160.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ4Yb-0005Im-4o@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <01MF25RJWD1K000053@mauve.mrochek.com> <461BC566.5020804@isode.com> In-Reply-To: <461BC566.5020804@isode.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> Alexey Melnikov wrote: > Is there any consensus for the following change > > OLD: > unicode-hex = 1*6HEXDIG > ^^^ > > NEW: > unicode-hex = 1*HEXDIG > ^^ > ? > > (And any sequence of more than 6 HEXDIG will cause error) It looks to me that we've reached rough consensus in favor of this change. Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3BJinsd008591 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 11 Apr 2007 12:44:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3BJincp008590; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 12:44:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from shell.mv.net (osmium.mv.net [199.125.85.152]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l3BJiRm9008548 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 12:44:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mem@mv.mv.com) Received: (qmail 63743 invoked by uid 101); 11 Apr 2007 15:44:26 -0400 From: "Mark E. Mallett" <mem@mv.mv.com> Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 15:44:26 -0400 To: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Re: Poll: consensus to change the encoded-character extension Message-ID: <20070411194426.GB58889@osmium.mv.net> References: <E1HZ0am-0004Yj-FC@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175676713.26520.91.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ1i6-0004b3-SV@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175686699.26520.160.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ4Yb-0005Im-4o@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <01MF25RJWD1K000053@mauve.mrochek.com> <461BC49D.9010609@isode.com> <461BC49D.9010609@isode.com> <twig.1176232344.73145@serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us> <1176234701.26687.172.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1176234701.26687.172.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> On Tue, Apr 10, 2007 at 09:51:41PM +0200, Kjetil Torgrim Homme wrote: > On Tue, 2007-04-10 at 19:12 +0000, Aaron Stone wrote: > > Note that LWSP is optional by definition, > > ouch, good catch! very. > LWSP requires WSP after CRLF, too, so it's simply not what we want, we > need to add another basic terminal, perhaps > > blank = WSP / CRLF > > I suggest we stick to the poll question from Alexey, but with "1*blank" > replacing LWSP in his suggested new text. That looks right (name doesn't have to be "blank" but whatever). > > I concur that comments should not be allowed. ditto mm Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3BJ96E1006020 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 11 Apr 2007 12:09:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3BJ96VL006019; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 12:09:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.serendipity.cx (serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us [66.92.2.87]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3BJ96Jn006013 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 12:09:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from aaron@serendipity.cx) Received: from serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us (unknown [10.10.10.34]) by mail.serendipity.cx (Postfix) with SMTP id 0449E5CFA; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 12:10:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 19:10:29 -0000 To: "Alexey Melnikov" <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> Subject: Re: encoded-character and unicode range violations From: "Aaron Stone" <aaron@serendipity.cx> X-Mailer: TWIG 2.8.3 Message-ID: <twig.1176318629.29413@serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us> In-Reply-To: <461D2F09.8080809@isode.com> References: <E1HbXNT-0000VM-1M@nostromo.freenet-ag.de>, <E1HbXNT-0000VM-1M@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <twig.1176316868.54435@serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us>, <twig.1176316868.54435@serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us> Cc: "Michael Haardt" <michael.haardt@freenet.ag>, <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org> Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> On Wed, Apr 11, 2007, Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> said: > Aaron Stone wrote: > >>On Wed, Apr 11, 2007, Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> said: >> >> >>>Michael Haardt wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Hello, >>>> >>>>just sitting at the code, what shoulb be the result of: >>>> >>>> "${unicode:0000000}" >>>> >>>>Seven digits, yet in range. To me, it should be a NUL character, not >>>>an error. Let's not specify the number of digits at all, neither in >>>>the grammar nor in the text, and just specify the range. >>>> >>>> >>>Speaking as a contributor: this would be fine with me. >>> >>> >>Ok, and is this an error or ignored? >> >> "${unicode:ffffff}" >> >> > For "unicode:" it is an error, as FFFFFF is bigger than 10FFFF Ok, that resolves all of my outstanding questions. I'm all set to see updated text whenever you're ready. Aaron Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3BItvE7005193 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 11 Apr 2007 11:55:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3BItvEm005192; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 11:55:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3BItudp005186 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 11:55:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alexey.melnikov@isode.com) Received: from [172.16.1.99] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id <Rh0vOwAkQk2M@rufus.isode.com>; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 19:55:55 +0100 Message-ID: <461D2F09.8080809@isode.com> Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 19:55:05 +0100 From: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Aaron Stone <aaron@serendipity.cx> CC: Michael Haardt <michael.haardt@freenet.ag>, ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Re: encoded-character and unicode range violations References: <E1HbXNT-0000VM-1M@nostromo.freenet-ag.de>, <E1HbXNT-0000VM-1M@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <twig.1176316868.54435@serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us> In-Reply-To: <twig.1176316868.54435@serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> Aaron Stone wrote: >On Wed, Apr 11, 2007, Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> said: > > >>Michael Haardt wrote: >> >> >>>Hello, >>> >>>just sitting at the code, what shoulb be the result of: >>> >>> "${unicode:0000000}" >>> >>>Seven digits, yet in range. To me, it should be a NUL character, not >>>an error. Let's not specify the number of digits at all, neither in >>>the grammar nor in the text, and just specify the range. >>> >>> >>Speaking as a contributor: this would be fine with me. >> >> >Ok, and is this an error or ignored? > > "${unicode:ffffff}" > > For "unicode:" it is an error, as FFFFFF is bigger than 10FFFF Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3BIe86v003228 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 11 Apr 2007 11:40:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3BIe8L3003227; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 11:40:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.serendipity.cx (serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us [66.92.2.87]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3BIdljc003163 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 11:40:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from aaron@serendipity.cx) Received: from serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us (unknown [10.10.10.34]) by mail.serendipity.cx (Postfix) with SMTP id 29CBA5CFA; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 11:41:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 18:41:08 -0000 To: "Alexey Melnikov" <alexey.melnikov@isode.com>, "Michael Haardt" <michael.haardt@freenet.ag> Subject: Re: encoded-character and unicode range violations From: "Aaron Stone" <aaron@serendipity.cx> X-Mailer: TWIG 2.8.3 Message-ID: <twig.1176316868.54435@serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us> In-Reply-To: <461D12DC.70604@isode.com> References: <E1HbXNT-0000VM-1M@nostromo.freenet-ag.de>, <E1HbXNT-0000VM-1M@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> Cc: <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org> Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> On Wed, Apr 11, 2007, Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> said: > Michael Haardt wrote: > >>Hello, >> >>just sitting at the code, what shoulb be the result of: >> >> "${unicode:0000000}" >> >>Seven digits, yet in range. To me, it should be a NUL character, not >>an error. Let's not specify the number of digits at all, neither in >>the grammar nor in the text, and just specify the range. >> >> > Speaking as a contributor: this would be fine with me. Ok, and is this an error or ignored? "${unicode:ffffff}" Aaron Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3BGu4qQ092078 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 11 Apr 2007 09:56:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3BGu4qs092077; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 09:56:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3BGthBn092050 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 09:56:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alexey.melnikov@isode.com) Received: from [172.16.1.99] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id <Rh0TDgAkQrTR@rufus.isode.com>; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 17:55:42 +0100 Message-ID: <461D12DC.70604@isode.com> Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 17:54:52 +0100 From: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Haardt <michael.haardt@freenet.ag> CC: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Re: encoded-character and unicode range violations References: <E1HbXNT-0000VM-1M@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> In-Reply-To: <E1HbXNT-0000VM-1M@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> Michael Haardt wrote: >Hello, > >just sitting at the code, what shoulb be the result of: > > "${unicode:0000000}" > >Seven digits, yet in range. To me, it should be a NUL character, not >an error. Let's not specify the number of digits at all, neither in >the grammar nor in the text, and just specify the range. > > Speaking as a contributor: this would be fine with me. Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3B7aqS1044291 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 11 Apr 2007 00:36:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3B7aqQf044290; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 00:36:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mout2.freenet.de (mout2.freenet.de [194.97.50.155]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3B7aUxa044277 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 00:36:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from michael.haardt@freenet.ag) Received: from [194.97.50.153] (helo=mx11.freenet.de) by mout2.freenet.de with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from <michael.haardt@freenet.ag>) id 1HbXNT-0004aA-MD for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 09:36:27 +0200 Received: from nostromo.freenet-ag.de ([194.97.7.6]:60297) by mx11.freenet.de with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (port 25) (Exim 4.67 #6) id 1HbXNT-0003yR-Ll for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 09:36:27 +0200 Received: from michael by nostromo.freenet-ag.de with local (ID michael) (Exim 4.67 #6) id 1HbXNT-0000VM-1M for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 09:36:27 +0200 Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 09:36:26 +0200 To: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: encoded-character and unicode range violations User-Agent: Heirloom mailx 12.1 6/15/06 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <E1HbXNT-0000VM-1M@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> From: Michael Haardt <michael.haardt@freenet.ag> Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> Hello, just sitting at the code, what shoulb be the result of: "${unicode:0000000}" Seven digits, yet in range. To me, it should be a NUL character, not an error. Let's not specify the number of digits at all, neither in the grammar nor in the text, and just specify the range. Michael Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3AJq67x085832 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 10 Apr 2007 12:52:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3AJq6TZ085831; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 12:52:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from pat.uio.no (pat.uio.no [129.240.10.15]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3AJphkx085786 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 12:52:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kjetilho@ifi.uio.no) Received: from mail-mx8.uio.no ([129.240.10.38]) by pat.uio.no with esmtp (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no>) id 1HbMNS-0001J6-NU; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 21:51:42 +0200 Received: from smtp.uio.no ([129.240.10.9] helo=mail-mx8.uio.no) by mail-mx8.uio.no with esmtp (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no>) id 1HbMNS-0005mr-DO; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 21:51:42 +0200 Received: from havhest.ifi.uio.no ([129.240.68.231]) by mail-mx8.uio.no with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no>) id 1HbMNS-0005mn-9k; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 21:51:42 +0200 Subject: Re: Poll: consensus to change the encoded-character extension From: Kjetil Torgrim Homme <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no> To: Aaron Stone <aaron@serendipity.cx> Cc: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com>, ietf-mta-filters@imc.org In-Reply-To: <twig.1176232344.73145@serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us> References: <E1HZ0am-0004Yj-FC@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175676713.26520.91.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ1i6-0004b3-SV@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175686699.26520.160.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ4Yb-0005Im-4o@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <01MF25RJWD1K000053@mauve.mrochek.com> <461BC49D.9010609@isode.com> , <461BC49D.9010609@isode.com> <twig.1176232344.73145@serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 21:51:41 +0200 Message-Id: <1176234701.26687.172.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UiO-SPF-Received: X-UiO-Resend: resent X-UiO-SPF-Received: X-UiO-Spam-info: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-4.8, required=12.0, autolearn=disabled, AWL=0.156,UIO_MAIL_IS_INTERNAL=-5) X-UiO-Scanned: 3A7BBD110585CC14168B5EA4E0FB3FF74DD3640F X-UiO-SPAM-Test: remote_host: 129.240.10.9 spam_score: -47 maxlevel 200 minaction 2 bait 0 mail/h: 886 total 970905 max/h 7466 blacklist 0 greylist 0 ratelimit 0 Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> On Tue, 2007-04-10 at 19:12 +0000, Aaron Stone wrote: > Something like this: > > encoded-character = "${" encoded-char-scheme ":" encoded-char-seq > "}" > encoded-char-scheme = hex / unicode > encoded-char-seq = *(LWSP WSP 1*HEXDIG) LWSP if we allow ${hex:100} in the grammar, we need to say something in the text about the valid range. I would prefer to stick to separate productions for encoded-arb-octets and encoded-unicode-char to keep the text simple and to minimise the change to the text. > Note that LWSP is optional by definition, ouch, good catch! > so we have to include SP or WSP > to force some kind of separator between 1*HEXDIG's. Note that this is not > valid according to the syntax above, > > ${unicode: > 123 > ABC > } > > ..because 123 and ABC do not have WSP between them. Use WSP / CR / LF? Is > there some variant of LWSP that mandates at least one character of > something be present? LWSP requires WSP after CRLF, too, so it's simply not what we want, we need to add another basic terminal, perhaps blank = WSP / CRLF I suggest we stick to the poll question from Alexey, but with "1*blank" replacing LWSP in his suggested new text. > I think there are three options for values that are out of range: > > 1. Throw an error and reject the script. > 2. Ignore the offending value. > 3. Insert some placeholder like ' ' or '?'. I don't think we need to revisit this question. > I concur that comments should not be allowed. -- Kjetil T. Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3AJOPVX083782 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 10 Apr 2007 12:24:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3AJOPKg083781; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 12:24:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from pat.uio.no (pat.uio.no [129.240.10.15]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3AJONLe083771 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 12:24:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kjetilho@ifi.uio.no) Received: from mail-mx4.uio.no ([129.240.10.45]) by pat.uio.no with esmtp (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no>) id 1HbLx1-00041Q-0x; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 21:24:23 +0200 Received: from smtp.uio.no ([129.240.10.9] helo=mail-mx4.uio.no) by mail-mx4.uio.no with esmtp (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no>) id 1HbLx0-0007cE-LJ; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 21:24:22 +0200 Received: from havhest.ifi.uio.no ([129.240.68.231]) by mail-mx4.uio.no with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no>) id 1HbLx0-0007c8-IT; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 21:24:22 +0200 Subject: Re: Poll: consensus to change the encoded-character extension From: Kjetil Torgrim Homme <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no> To: Michael Haardt <michael.haardt@freenet.ag> Cc: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org In-Reply-To: <E1HbLUq-0000Bv-KD@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> References: <E1HZ0am-0004Yj-FC@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175676713.26520.91.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ1i6-0004b3-SV@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175686699.26520.160.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ4Yb-0005Im-4o@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <01MF25RJWD1K000053@mauve.mrochek.com> <461BC49D.9010609@isode.com> <1176228806.26687.150.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HbLUq-0000Bv-KD@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 21:24:21 +0200 Message-Id: <1176233062.26687.156.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UiO-SPF-Received: X-UiO-Resend: resent X-UiO-SPF-Received: X-UiO-Spam-info: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-4.9, required=12.0, autolearn=disabled, AWL=0.079,UIO_MAIL_IS_INTERNAL=-5) X-UiO-Scanned: 3BFC39433ACC6A8EC7375469450F062A803C2EDE X-UiO-SPAM-Test: remote_host: 129.240.10.9 spam_score: -48 maxlevel 200 minaction 2 bait 0 mail/h: 407 total 970426 max/h 7466 blacklist 0 greylist 0 ratelimit 0 Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> On Tue, 2007-04-10 at 20:55 +0200, Michael Haardt wrote: > Btw: If you want to encode "${hex:00}" literally, you need to write > "${hex:24 7b 68 65 78 3a 30 30 7d}". "${hex:24}{hex:00}" is shorter and IMHO clearer. > Hmm. 2.4.2 says further: > > NUL (US-ASCII 0) is not allowed in strings. > > How about: > > An unencoded NUL (US-ASCII 0) is not allowed in strings, see section > 2.4.2.4 for encoded characters. I think that clarification is useful. "Literal NUL ..." works, too. -- Kjetil T. Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3AJBTWo082046 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 10 Apr 2007 12:11:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3AJBTQG082045; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 12:11:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.serendipity.cx (serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us [66.92.2.87]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3AJB8VV082003 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 12:11:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from aaron@serendipity.cx) Received: from serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us (unknown [10.10.10.34]) by mail.serendipity.cx (Postfix) with SMTP id DF57F5CC8; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 12:12:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 19:12:24 -0000 To: "Kjetil Torgrim Homme" <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no>, "Alexey Melnikov" <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> Subject: Re: Poll: consensus to change the encoded-character extension From: "Aaron Stone" <aaron@serendipity.cx> X-Mailer: TWIG 2.8.3 Message-ID: <twig.1176232344.73145@serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us> In-Reply-To: <1176228806.26687.150.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> References: <E1HZ0am-0004Yj-FC@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175676713.26520.91.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ1i6-0004b3-SV@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175686699.26520.160.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ4Yb-0005Im-4o@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <01MF25RJWD1K000053@mauve.mrochek.com> <461BC49D.9010609@isode.com>, <461BC49D.9010609@isode.com> Cc: <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org> Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> On Tue, Apr 10, 2007, Kjetil Torgrim Homme <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no> said: > > On Tue, 2007-04-10 at 18:08 +0100, Alexey Melnikov wrote: >> From my reading of the mailing list it sounds like there is consensus >> to do the following change: [...] > >> And this needs to be updated if people want to allow for trailing LSWP >> (before the closing "}") > > if trailing LWSP is allowed, leading LWSP should be allowed, too. I > don't mind making such a change. I don't mind making the other changes, > either (including 1*HEXDIG). Something like this: encoded-character = "${" encoded-char-scheme ":" encoded-char-seq "}" encoded-char-scheme = hex / unicode encoded-char-seq = *(LWSP WSP 1*HEXDIG) LWSP Note that LWSP is optional by definition, so we have to include SP or WSP to force some kind of separator between 1*HEXDIG's. Note that this is not valid according to the syntax above, ${unicode: 123 ABC } ..because 123 and ABC do not have WSP between them. Use WSP / CR / LF? Is there some variant of LWSP that mandates at least one character of something be present? I think there are three options for values that are out of range: 1. Throw an error and reject the script. 2. Ignore the offending value. 3. Insert some placeholder like ' ' or '?'. I concur that comments should not be allowed. Aaron Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3AItfGr080896 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:55:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3AItfDV080895; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:55:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mout0.freenet.de (mout0.freenet.de [194.97.50.131]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3AItJDa080846 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:55:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from michael.haardt@freenet.ag) Received: from [194.97.55.191] (helo=mx7.freenet.de) by mout0.freenet.de with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from <michael.haardt@freenet.ag>) id 1HbLUt-00034K-1m for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 20:55:19 +0200 Received: from nostromo.freenet-ag.de ([194.97.7.6]:51641) by mx7.freenet.de with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (port 25) (Exim 4.67 #6) id 1HbLUs-0006fl-WC for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 20:55:19 +0200 Received: from michael by nostromo.freenet-ag.de with local (ID michael) (Exim 4.67 #6) id 1HbLUq-0000Bv-KD for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 20:55:16 +0200 Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 20:55:16 +0200 To: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Re: Poll: consensus to change the encoded-character extension References: <E1HZ0am-0004Yj-FC@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175676713.26520.91.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ1i6-0004b3-SV@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175686699.26520.160.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ4Yb-0005Im-4o@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <01MF25RJWD1K000053@mauve.mrochek.com> <461BC49D.9010609@isode.com> <1176228806.26687.150.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> In-Reply-To: <1176228806.26687.150.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> User-Agent: Heirloom mailx 12.1 6/15/06 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <E1HbLUq-0000Bv-KD@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> From: Michael Haardt <michael.haardt@freenet.ag> Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> > if trailing LWSP is allowed, leading LWSP should be allowed, too. I > don't mind making such a change. I don't mind making the other changes, > either (including 1*HEXDIG). Trailing and leading white space would be great indeed, because together with LWSP you could encode a regular hexdump. > > I don't think we have consensus to allow for comments. > > I think we have consensus for not allowing them. Just looking at ${hex:...} and ${unicode:...}, I really don't need them, but should that syntax (enriched by something to split arguments) be used for functions, I disagree with Ned on not needing comments for that. I did use comments to comment arguments given to functions in the past, but I admit it's like once every few years. But... I don't insist on comments. Go ahead with LWSP and without comments. Alexey: Could you please include an example that shows "${hex:" means literally that and it is not an error? We can discuss that being right or wrong, but at this time, everybody but me considers is being right and that needs to be documented more clearly. Btw: If you want to encode "${hex:00}" literally, you need to write "${hex:24 7b 68 65 78 3a 30 30 7d}". "\$\{\h\e\x\:\0\0\}" is a string with one NUL byte, plus lacking the good reason to abuse \ asked for by the SHOULD NOT in section 2.4.2. I suppose everybody already knew that, because the spec says, expansion happens after scanning a string. If it surprises anybody, please speak up. Hmm. 2.4.2 says further: NUL (US-ASCII 0) is not allowed in strings. How about: An unencoded NUL (US-ASCII 0) is not allowed in strings, see section 2.4.2.4 for encoded characters. Michael Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3AIDURe077679 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:13:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3AIDUIk077678; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:13:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from pat.uio.no (pat.uio.no [129.240.10.15]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3AIDSxG077657 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:13:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kjetilho@ifi.uio.no) Received: from mail-mx8.uio.no ([129.240.10.38]) by pat.uio.no with esmtp (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no>) id 1HbKqO-0007QF-2x; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 20:13:28 +0200 Received: from smtp.uio.no ([129.240.10.9] helo=mail-mx8.uio.no) by mail-mx8.uio.no with esmtp (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no>) id 1HbKqN-0002gw-Rp; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 20:13:27 +0200 Received: from havhest.ifi.uio.no ([129.240.68.231]) by mail-mx8.uio.no with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no>) id 1HbKqN-0002gs-MF; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 20:13:27 +0200 Subject: Re: Poll: consensus to change the encoded-character extension From: Kjetil Torgrim Homme <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no> To: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> Cc: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org In-Reply-To: <461BC49D.9010609@isode.com> References: <E1HZ0am-0004Yj-FC@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175676713.26520.91.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ1i6-0004b3-SV@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175686699.26520.160.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ4Yb-0005Im-4o@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <01MF25RJWD1K000053@mauve.mrochek.com> <461BC49D.9010609@isode.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 20:13:24 +0200 Message-Id: <1176228806.26687.150.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UiO-SPF-Received: X-UiO-Resend: resent X-UiO-SPF-Received: X-UiO-Spam-info: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-4.8, required=12.0, autolearn=disabled, AWL=0.157,UIO_MAIL_IS_INTERNAL=-5) X-UiO-Scanned: 644FEE156FEEF1548C23CB83F082A8E3CE7C6096 X-UiO-SPAM-Test: remote_host: 129.240.10.9 spam_score: -47 maxlevel 200 minaction 2 bait 0 mail/h: 202 total 969253 max/h 7466 blacklist 0 greylist 0 ratelimit 0 Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> On Tue, 2007-04-10 at 18:08 +0100, Alexey Melnikov wrote: > From my reading of the mailing list it sounds like there is consensus > to do the following change: [...] > And this needs to be updated if people want to allow for trailing LSWP > (before the closing "}") if trailing LWSP is allowed, leading LWSP should be allowed, too. I don't mind making such a change. I don't mind making the other changes, either (including 1*HEXDIG). > I don't think we have consensus to allow for comments. I think we have consensus for not allowing them. -- Kjetil T. Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3AHCvM0071672 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 10 Apr 2007 10:12:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3AHCv74071671; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 10:12:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3AHCu5R071664 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 10:12:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alexey.melnikov@isode.com) Received: from [172.16.1.99] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id <RhvFlwAkQjqA@rufus.isode.com>; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 18:12:55 +0100 Message-ID: <461BC566.5020804@isode.com> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 18:12:06 +0100 From: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Poll: consensus to change the encoded-character extension References: <E1HZ0am-0004Yj-FC@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175676713.26520.91.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ1i6-0004b3-SV@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175686699.26520.160.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ4Yb-0005Im-4o@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <01MF25RJWD1K000053@mauve.mrochek.com> In-Reply-To: <01MF25RJWD1K000053@mauve.mrochek.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> Ned Freed wrote: >>>>"${unicode:200000}" -> error >>>>"${unicode:2000000}" -> "${unicode:2000000}" >>>> >>>>I don't particularly like that, because most likely the second was >>>>never meant that way. Is there any way to change that at this point? >>>> >>>> >>>you want to change unicode-hex to 1*HEXDIG instead? the wording should >>>already handle it, so it's just the ABNF which needs a tweak. that's >>>fine with me. I think it's Philip's call. >>> >>> >>Yes, that would be more logical. I consider ${hex: and ${unicode: as >>functions of constant arguments. No matter which argument is passed >>to them: Syntax errors (like a missing brace) should cause an error, >>and semantic errors like range overflows should cause an error, too. >>It's bizarre to see 0x200000 being an overflow, but 0x2000000 causing >>everything to be taken literally. >> >> >I'm not wild about changing from 1*6 to 1* but I can live with it if need be. > Is there any consensus for the following change OLD: unicode-hex = 1*6HEXDIG ^^^ NEW: unicode-hex = 1*HEXDIG ^^ ? (And any sequence of more than 6 HEXDIG will cause error) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3AH9ZmU071500 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 10 Apr 2007 10:09:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3AH9ZI7071499; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 10:09:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3AH9Yj4071493 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 10:09:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alexey.melnikov@isode.com) Received: from [172.16.1.99] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id <RhvEzQAkQqRa@rufus.isode.com>; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 18:09:33 +0100 Message-ID: <461BC49D.9010609@isode.com> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 18:08:45 +0100 From: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Poll: consensus to change the encoded-character extension References: <E1HZ0am-0004Yj-FC@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175676713.26520.91.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ1i6-0004b3-SV@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175686699.26520.160.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ4Yb-0005Im-4o@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <01MF25RJWD1K000053@mauve.mrochek.com> In-Reply-To: <01MF25RJWD1K000053@mauve.mrochek.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> Ned Freed wrote: >>>>>yes. whitespace is only allowed between hex-pairs. btw, how do you >>>>>feel about allowing CRLF as well as SPC and TAB between hex-pairs? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>Is CRLF allowed inside other ${} expressions (variables)? >>>> >>>> >>>variables doesn't allow any whitespace at all. >>> >>> >>Hmm, right, variables contain no arguments and we don't have functions >>yet. Thinking about string expressions, I certainly would like to >>have CRLF as white space, but I also would like embedded comments in >>that case. >> >I would like to allow CRLF but comments IMO go way too far. > > From my reading of the mailing list it sounds like there is consensus to do the following change: OLD: encoded-arb-octets = "${hex:" hex-pair-seq "}" hex-pair-seq = hex-pair *(WSP hex-pair) ^^^ NEW: encoded-arb-octets = "${hex:" hex-pair-seq "}" hex-pair-seq = hex-pair *(LWSP hex-pair) ^^^^ OLD: encoded-unicode-char = "${unicode:" unicode-hex-seq "}" unicode-hex-seq = unicode-hex *(WSP unicode-hex) ^^^ NEW: encoded-unicode-char = "${unicode:" unicode-hex-seq "}" unicode-hex-seq = unicode-hex *(LWSP unicode-hex) ^^^ unicode-hex = 1*6HEXDIG And this needs to be updated if people want to allow for trailing LSWP (before the closing "}") >The argument for allowing CRLF is that it is really needed to allow reasonable >formatting of long runs of hex-encoded stuff. If, say, you want to write a few >hundred bytes worth of material, with the current proposal you either have to >put it all on one line, hope you can find a CRLF in there that you can leave >unencoded and thus create a line break (unlikely), or use a series of set >actions to build up the string piecemeal (ugly and requires variables support). > >The same cannot be said of comments - you are free to put one in front of the >string or at the end and end up with something that's readable. Of course I >suppose you could argue that there are cases where it is clearer to have the >comment in the middle, but I have to say I find that to be a fairly contrived >case. > > I don't think we have consensus to allow for comments. > Just looking at encoded-character, I see no need for CRLF > Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3AGaOov066812 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 10 Apr 2007 09:36:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3AGaOmH066811; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 09:36:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from pat.uio.no (pat.uio.no [129.240.10.15]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3AGa1P7066737 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 09:36:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kjetilho@ifi.uio.no) Received: from mail-mx4.uio.no ([129.240.10.45]) by pat.uio.no with esmtp (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no>) id 1HbJK4-0003eV-95; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 18:36:00 +0200 Received: from smtp.uio.no ([129.240.10.9] helo=mail-mx4.uio.no) by mail-mx4.uio.no with esmtp (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no>) id 1HbJK3-0003jf-QG; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 18:35:59 +0200 Received: from havhest.ifi.uio.no ([129.240.68.231]) by mail-mx4.uio.no with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no>) id 1HbJK3-0003jJ-NF; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 18:35:59 +0200 Subject: Re: Sieve notify options and escaping From: Kjetil Torgrim Homme <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no> To: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> Cc: Aaron Stone <aaron@serendipity.cx>, ietf-mta-filters@imc.org In-Reply-To: <461A91F3.3010607@isode.com> References: <5632.1174324187.590192@invsysm1> , <5632.1174324187.590192@invsysm1> <twig.1174931628.54097@serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us> <1174997005.3801.6.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <1175004854.31407.397.camel@localhost> <461A91F3.3010607@isode.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 18:35:53 +0200 Message-Id: <1176222953.26687.125.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.0 X-UiO-SPF-Received: X-UiO-Resend: resent X-UiO-SPF-Received: X-UiO-Spam-info: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-4.9, required=12.0, autolearn=disabled, AWL=0.080,UIO_MAIL_IS_INTERNAL=-5) X-UiO-Scanned: EB0A14E56D0A45E3158BD42F085F0F3675C14A76 X-UiO-SPAM-Test: remote_host: 129.240.10.9 spam_score: -48 maxlevel 200 minaction 2 bait 0 mail/h: 649 total 967755 max/h 7466 blacklist 0 greylist 0 ratelimit 0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by balder-227.proper.com id l3AGaNP6066806 Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> On Mon, 2007-04-09 at 20:20 +0100, Alexey Melnikov wrote: > Aaron Stone wrote: > >So a user can supply a variable that expands into valid options or url > >syntax. I do think we have to prevent this. > > New ":urlencode" modifier to the set action? what document should add such a modifier? I'd like to note that it is possible to do this securely, although it's not convenient. e.g. if string :matches "${var}" "*&*" { set "var" "${1}%26${2}"; no, scratch that, we don't have recursion or other looping, so it won't work for values containing two ampersands. it would be tempting to add a replace action: replace "var" "&" "%26"; we could allow MATCH-TYPE for more advanced replacements, e.g. replace :matches "var" "\\?" "${1}"; would replace a backslash followed by an arbitrary character by that arbitrary character. I don't have a real use case for this, so please feel free to disregard the suggestion. getting back to the issue at hand, I think it would be better to extend the size of the notify namespace. we could have ${notify.quote.subject} (turn «hey "you"» into «"hey \"you\""») ${notify.urlencode.subject} (turn above string into «hey%20"you"») ${notify.plain.subject} (verbatim value) we could also turn the order around, e.g. ${notify.subject.plain} ${notify.subject.urlencode} which allows us to choose one of them as a "default" when the user writes just ${notify.subject}. -- Kjetil T. Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3ABBxeY041006 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 10 Apr 2007 04:11:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3ABBxEW041004; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 04:11:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3ABBcBu040958 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 04:11:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alexey.melnikov@isode.com) Received: from [172.16.1.99] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id <Rhtw5QAkQkPi@rufus.isode.com>; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 12:11:34 +0100 Message-ID: <461A9102.4080505@isode.com> Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 20:16:18 +0100 From: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Aaron Stone <aaron@serendipity.cx> CC: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Re: Sieve notify options and escaping References: <5632.1174324187.590192@invsysm1>, <5632.1174324187.590192@invsysm1> <twig.1174931628.54097@serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us> In-Reply-To: <twig.1174931628.54097@serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> Aaron Stone wrote: >On Mon, Mar 26, 2007, Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> said: > >>Aaron, Dave has forwarded me your message: >> >> >Ok, moving back on list since we're more than one side-comment out. > > >>Dave Cridland wrote: >> >> >>>Dave, >>> >>>Barry and I discussed the need for some text to say what this means: >>> >>> notify :options "body=${summary}" "mailto:foo@bar" >>> >>>Because when you expand ${summary} is pretty important wrt escaping. >>>Barry said that he'd add some text to handle this. I forgot to mention >>>it in the jabber room for the official notes. >>> >>> >>Is this specific to Mailto notification method? Note that there is no >>text in notify base saying that options are to be converted to URI >>parameters. >> >Same issues arise from this: mailto "mailto:foo@bar?body=${summary}" > >What if ${summary} expands to "safebody&evil=evilbody"? We'll need some >text to handle this situation I think. > If you suggest some, I will include it ;-). >The issue applies to all >mechanisms, I'm sure we could just as easily have additional xmpp url >arguments or options. > >Do we have the option for "lazy evaluation" of variable expansion? If the >expansion takes place inside the action, we have no trouble. If it takes >place prior to calling the action, we need escaping. > > >>Also, do we actually want to register the "body" option? >> >Sure, I don't see why not... > > Personally I dislike this, as this will most likely require a new IANA registry. So far we were able to punt on this, as we didn't have any options. Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3ABBx2M041007 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 10 Apr 2007 04:11:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3ABBxBU041005; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 04:11:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3ABBc8e040959 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 04:11:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alexey.melnikov@isode.com) Received: from [172.16.1.99] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id <Rhtw5gAkQsfj@rufus.isode.com>; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 12:11:35 +0100 Message-ID: <461A91F3.3010607@isode.com> Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 20:20:19 +0100 From: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Aaron Stone <aaron@serendipity.cx> CC: Kjetil Torgrim Homme <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no>, ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Re: Sieve notify options and escaping References: <5632.1174324187.590192@invsysm1> , <5632.1174324187.590192@invsysm1> <twig.1174931628.54097@serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us> <1174997005.3801.6.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <1175004854.31407.397.camel@localhost> In-Reply-To: <1175004854.31407.397.camel@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> Aaron Stone wrote: >On Tue, 2007-03-27 at 14:03 +0200, Kjetil Torgrim Homme wrote: > > >>On Mon, 2007-03-26 at 17:53 +0000, Aaron Stone wrote: >> >> >>>Do we have the option for "lazy evaluation" of variable expansion? If the >>>expansion takes place inside the action, we have no trouble. If it takes >>>place prior to calling the action, we need escaping. >>> >>> >>[variables] says: >> >>3. Interpretation of strings >> [...] >> Tests or actions in future extensions may need to access the >> unexpanded version of the string argument and, e.g., do the expansion >> after setting variables in its namespace. The design of the >> implementation should allow this. >> >>so the door is kept open, but the extension needs to be explicit about >>it. notice that a separate namespace should be used for such "dynamic" >>or "internal" variables, in other words it should be ${notify.summary}, >>not just ${summary}. for normal variables without a namespace, the >>behaviour is: >> >> The expanded string MUST use the variable values which are current >> when control reaches the statement the string is part of. >> >> >So a user can supply a variable that expands into valid options or url >syntax. I do think we have to prevent this. > > New ":urlencode" modifier to the set action? Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3A52LF3018573 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 9 Apr 2007 22:02:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3A52LTw018572; Mon, 9 Apr 2007 22:02:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.serendipity.cx (serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us [66.92.2.87]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3A520tu018528 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Mon, 9 Apr 2007 22:02:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from aaron@serendipity.cx) Received: from [192.168.1.158] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.serendipity.cx (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBE6A5CC8 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Mon, 9 Apr 2007 22:03:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Implementing encoded-character From: Aaron Stone <aaron@serendipity.cx> To: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org In-Reply-To: <twig.1175807409.23614@serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us> References: <E1HZ0am-0004Yj-FC@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175676713.26520.91.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ1i6-0004b3-SV@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175686699.26520.160.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ4Yb-0005Im-4o@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175757601.28555.121.camel@localhost> , <twig.1175807409.23614@serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 17:27:41 -0700 Message-Id: <1176164861.19275.38.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.10.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> On Thu, 2007-04-05 at 21:10 +0000, Aaron Stone wrote: > On Thu, Apr 5, 2007, Ned Freed <ned.freed@mrochek.com> said: > > >> > > > "${unicode:200000}" -> error > >> > > > "${unicode:2000000}" -> "${unicode:2000000}" > > > >> Ugh, if it looks like encoded-char and walks like encoded-char... > > > >> My test implementation left-shifts the current value of the encoded > >> character, then adds the next hex digit. When it hits whitespace, it > >> checks if the value is within appropriate bounds; if so, stores the > >> character then loops, if not, stores '?' then loops. Would we really > >> rather be very strict about this? I'm in favor of some flexibility. > > > > You need to strictly implement the grammar in the specificaiton, whatever > > that ends up being. Any flexibility will allow someone to write one of > > these things that works in your implementation but silently fails and causes > > wierd results elsewhere. > > > > Past experience with RFC 2047 encoded-words has shown that allowing leeway in > > this situations is a curse, not a blessing. > > Indeed, point taken! It's not strict yet (I'll cross that bridge when we agree on where it is ;-), it just translates the hex values to utf-8. And now, counting from 0-9 in Western Arabic, Eastern Arabic and Amharic (thanks unicode.org/charts!)... Converting [${unicode:30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39}] to [0123456789] length 11 Converting [${unicode:06f0 06f1 06f2 06f3 06f4 06f5 06f6 06f7 06f8 06f9}] to [Û°Û±Û²Û³Û´ÛµÛ¶Û·Û¸Û¹] length 21 Converting [${unicode:1369 136a 136b 136c 136d 136e 136f 1370 1371 1372}] to [á©áªá«á¬áá®á¯á°á±á²] length 31 (Are there any number systems up in the four bytes per symbol ranges?) If anybody would like to use my code, I'd be happy to make it available without restriction. It's all of 100 lines, and most of the fun was generating utf-8 by hand. Aaron Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l36FCHVR088162 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 6 Apr 2007 08:12:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l36FCHXG088161; Fri, 6 Apr 2007 08:12:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from shell.mv.net (osmium.mv.net [199.125.85.152]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l36FBtqF088125 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Fri, 6 Apr 2007 08:12:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mem@mv.mv.com) Received: (qmail 30323 invoked by uid 101); 6 Apr 2007 11:11:55 -0400 From: "Mark E. Mallett" <mem@mv.mv.com> Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 11:11:55 -0400 To: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Re: Support for encoded-character Message-ID: <20070406151155.GA19784@osmium.mv.net> References: <1174444371.31407.125.camel@localhost> <4606EB9D.30209@isode.com> <01MEX09900ZW000053@mauve.mrochek.com> <Pine.BSO.4.64.0704021251520.18303@vanye.mho.net> <01MEY6R7GWIU000053@mauve.mrochek.com> <Pine.BSO.4.64.0704022315330.3678@vanye.mho.net> <1175651215.26520.46.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1175651215.26520.46.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> On Wed, Apr 04, 2007 at 03:46:54AM +0200, Kjetil Torgrim Homme wrote: > > On Mon, 2007-04-02 at 23:36 -0600, Philip Guenther wrote: > > On Mon, 2 Apr 2007, Ned Freed wrote: > > > Sorry, missed that was one of the core rules. But that makes me wonder > > > if LWSP wouldn't be more appropriate... > > > > That's an interesting idea, as it would let you 'wrap' a string in the > > script without including the CRLF in the string's value. Hmm. > > that could be useful, I guess, although I personally would have > preferred adopting the common convention of ending lines with backslash > if we need this capability. sneaking it in through encoded-character is > probably easier, though. FWIW, I agree with the LWSP - I don't see any reason to have to escape any line endings inside of an encoded-character block when it should be fairly evident that nobody would want to preserve the CRLF there anyway. Make it easy to compose the strings, and less easy to make errors. mm (IMHO) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l35L9fiE088764 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 5 Apr 2007 14:09:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l35L9fIE088763; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 14:09:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.serendipity.cx (serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us [66.92.2.87]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l35L9KNR088748 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 14:09:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from aaron@serendipity.cx) Received: from serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us (unknown [10.10.10.34]) by mail.serendipity.cx (Postfix) with SMTP id 364745CC8; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 14:10:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 21:10:09 -0000 To: "Ned Freed" <ned.freed@mrochek.com> Subject: Re: Implementing encoded-character From: "Aaron Stone" <aaron@serendipity.cx> X-Mailer: TWIG 2.8.2 Message-ID: <twig.1175807409.23614@serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us> In-Reply-To: <01MF25UDFOUS000053@mauve.mrochek.com> References: <E1HZ0am-0004Yj-FC@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175676713.26520.91.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ1i6-0004b3-SV@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175686699.26520.160.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ4Yb-0005Im-4o@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175757601.28555.121.camel@localhost>, Cc: "Michael Haardt" <michael.haardt@freenet.ag>, <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org> Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> On Thu, Apr 5, 2007, Ned Freed <ned.freed@mrochek.com> said: >> > > > "${unicode:200000}" -> error >> > > > "${unicode:2000000}" -> "${unicode:2000000}" > >> Ugh, if it looks like encoded-char and walks like encoded-char... > >> My test implementation left-shifts the current value of the encoded >> character, then adds the next hex digit. When it hits whitespace, it >> checks if the value is within appropriate bounds; if so, stores the >> character then loops, if not, stores '?' then loops. Would we really >> rather be very strict about this? I'm in favor of some flexibility. > > You need to strictly implement the grammar in the specificaiton, whatever > that ends up being. Any flexibility will allow someone to write one of > these things that works in your implementation but silently fails and causes > wierd results elsewhere. > > Past experience with RFC 2047 encoded-words has shown that allowing leeway in > this situations is a curse, not a blessing. Indeed, point taken! Aaron Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l35Hg0L6070614 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 5 Apr 2007 10:42:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l35Hg0Wg070613; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 10:42:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mauve.mrochek.com (dsl-66-59-230-40.static.linkline.com [66.59.230.40]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l35HfxQ0070604 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 10:42:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ned.freed@mrochek.com) Received: from dkim-sign.mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01MF25UGVI0W002UOJ@mauve.mrochek.com> for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 10:41:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01MF039D5LA8000053@mauve.mrochek.com>; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 10:41:48 -0700 (PDT) Cc: Michael Haardt <michael.haardt@freenet.ag>, ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Message-id: <01MF25UDFOUS000053@mauve.mrochek.com> Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 10:40:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Ned Freed <ned.freed@mrochek.com> Subject: Re: Implementing encoded-character In-reply-to: "Your message dated Thu, 05 Apr 2007 00:20:01 -0700" <1175757601.28555.121.camel@localhost> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN References: <E1HZ0am-0004Yj-FC@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175676713.26520.91.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ1i6-0004b3-SV@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175686699.26520.160.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ4Yb-0005Im-4o@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175757601.28555.121.camel@localhost> To: Aaron Stone <aaron@serendipity.cx> DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nowsp; d=mrochek.com; s=mauve; t=1175794913; h=Date: From:Subject:MIME-version:Content-type; b=wEG4gjsLnfvAUjEAD8y/IiBk8 qr6HKifDDXxiHYqvIZZB2piVJeeX8wqabgqt7RhyMGKQgyWH6G14d63TiZd9g== Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> > On Wed, 2007-04-04 at 14:25 +0200, Michael Haardt wrote: > > > > > yes. whitespace is only allowed between hex-pairs. btw, how do you > > > > > feel about allowing CRLF as well as SPC and TAB between hex-pairs? > > > > > > Is CRLF allowed inside other ${} expressions (variables)? > > > > > variables doesn't allow any whitespace at all. > > > > Hmm, right, variables contain no arguments and we don't have functions > > yet. Thinking about string expressions, I certainly would like to > > have CRLF as white space, but I also would like embedded comments in > > that case. Just looking at encoded-character, I see no need for CRLF > > and even have an odd feeling with, but considering it as syntactic > > prototype for string expressions, both CRLF and comments sound useful. > I kind of like the idea of things that look like variables but are > functions operating on the right side of the colon. > We had a bit of discussion in Prague about list expansions that access > external data sources. This would certainly be one way to handle it, > though we'd have to be careful about strict vs. lazy evaluation. Anyhow, > that should probably be the subject of a separate thread. > > > > Before looking at it, I expected that if ${hex: is found, it would be > > > > an error if it were not followed by arguments and a closing brace. > > > > > > well, you don't need to backtrack much: > > > > It's no problem really, just confusing. If someone starts to write > > ${hex:, most likely he meant to encode data. Only CS people think stuff > > like "it's not a word of the grammar, thus of course being an literal > > as specified". ;-) > I agree, it'd be confusing for that to happen. > [snip] > > > > "${unicode:200000}" -> error > > > > "${unicode:2000000}" -> "${unicode:2000000}" > Ugh, if it looks like encoded-char and walks like encoded-char... > My test implementation left-shifts the current value of the encoded > character, then adds the next hex digit. When it hits whitespace, it > checks if the value is within appropriate bounds; if so, stores the > character then loops, if not, stores '?' then loops. Would we really > rather be very strict about this? I'm in favor of some flexibility. You need to strictly implement the grammar in the specificaiton, whatever that ends up being. Any flexibility will allow someone to write one of these things that works in your implementation but silently fails and causes wierd results elsewhere. Past experience with RFC 2047 encoded-words has shown that allowing leeway in this situations is a curse, not a blessing. ned Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l35Hdirb070505 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 5 Apr 2007 10:39:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l35HdijI070504; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 10:39:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mauve.mrochek.com (dsl-66-59-230-40.static.linkline.com [66.59.230.40]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l35HdhHQ070498 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 10:39:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ned.freed@mrochek.com) Received: from dkim-sign.mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01MF25RMCNBK002GNE@mauve.mrochek.com> for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 10:39:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01MF039D5LA8000053@mauve.mrochek.com>; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 10:39:31 -0700 (PDT) Cc: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Message-id: <01MF25RJWD1K000053@mauve.mrochek.com> Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 10:25:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Ned Freed <ned.freed@mrochek.com> Subject: Re: Implementing encoded-character In-reply-to: "Your message dated Wed, 04 Apr 2007 14:25:45 +0200" <E1HZ4Yb-0005Im-4o@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN References: <E1HZ0am-0004Yj-FC@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175676713.26520.91.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ1i6-0004b3-SV@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175686699.26520.160.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ4Yb-0005Im-4o@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> To: Michael Haardt <michael.haardt@freenet.ag> DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nowsp; d=mrochek.com; s=mauve; t=1175794776; h=Date: From:Subject:MIME-version:Content-type; b=XppXiNP+3PAZ5rgiVcOcbBtrD RHBTUV1EWWby+LamCf+8APyRZvzEBGP7E+DsZB845qP9dlqJaTswtA3g+nSvA== Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> > > > > yes. whitespace is only allowed between hex-pairs. btw, how do you > > > > feel about allowing CRLF as well as SPC and TAB between hex-pairs? > > > Is CRLF allowed inside other ${} expressions (variables)? > > variables doesn't allow any whitespace at all. > Hmm, right, variables contain no arguments and we don't have functions > yet. Thinking about string expressions, I certainly would like to > have CRLF as white space, but I also would like embedded comments in > that case. I would like to allow CRLF but comments IMO go way too far. The argument for allowing CRLF is that it is really needed to allow reasonable formatting of long runs of hex-encoded stuff. If, say, you want to write a few hundred bytes worth of material, with the current proposal you either have to put it all on one line, hope you can find a CRLF in there that you can leave unencoded and thus create a line break (unlikely), or use a series of set actions to build up the string piecemeal (ugly and requires variables support). The same cannot be said of comments - you are free to put one in front of the string or at the end and end up with something that's readable. Of course I suppose you could argue that there are cases where it is clearer to have the comment in the middle, but I have to say I find that to be a fairly contrived case. Just looking at encoded-character, I see no need for CRLF > and even have an odd feeling with, but considering it as syntactic > prototype for string expressions, both CRLF and comments sound useful. > > > Before looking at it, I expected that if ${hex: is found, it would be > > > an error if it were not followed by arguments and a closing brace. > > > > well, you don't need to backtrack much: > It's no problem really, just confusing. If someone starts to write > ${hex:, most likely he meant to encode data. Only CS people think stuff > like "it's not a word of the grammar, thus of course being an literal > as specified". ;-) > > > "${unicode:200000}" -> error > > > "${unicode:2000000}" -> "${unicode:2000000}" > > > > > > I don't particularly like that, because most likely the second was > > > never meant that way. Is there any way to change that at this point? > > you want to change unicode-hex to 1*HEXDIG instead? the wording should > > already handle it, so it's just the ABNF which needs a tweak. that's > > fine with me. I think it's Philip's call. > Yes, that would be more logical. I consider ${hex: and ${unicode: as > functions of constant arguments. No matter which argument is passed > to them: Syntax errors (like a missing brace) should cause an error, > and semantic errors like range overflows should cause an error, too. > It's bizarre to see 0x200000 being an overflow, but 0x2000000 causing > everything to be taken literally. I'm not wild about changing from 1*6 to 1* but I can live with it if need be. That said, I completely disagree with your assessment of when it is appropriate to generate an error. These "overlay" syntaxes always have a tension between syntactic generality and potential collision with regular strings people might want to use - the more general you make your syntax the more likely you are to collide with some legitimate regular string. So, while I have no major issue with allowing 1*HEXDIG, only to call overly long strings an error, I have a major problem with allowing something like "${hex:" or even "${hex" or "${" to match and then generate an error. Ned Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l35HLHIJ069666 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 5 Apr 2007 10:21:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l35HLHQ5069665; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 10:21:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mauve.mrochek.com (dsl-66-59-230-40.static.linkline.com [66.59.230.40]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l35HKuGT069598 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 10:21:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ned.freed@mrochek.com) Received: from dkim-sign.mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01MF253XKGVK002W4I@mauve.mrochek.com> for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 10:20:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01MF039D5LA8000053@mauve.mrochek.com>; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 10:20:27 -0700 (PDT) Cc: Ned Freed <ned.freed@mrochek.com>, Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com>, ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Message-id: <01MF253WGW7C000053@mauve.mrochek.com> Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 10:20:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Ned Freed <ned.freed@mrochek.com> Subject: Re: Support for encoded-character In-reply-to: "Your message dated Mon, 02 Apr 2007 23:36:26 -0600" <Pine.BSO.4.64.0704022315330.3678@vanye.mho.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed References: <1174444371.31407.125.camel@localhost> <4606EB9D.30209@isode.com> <01MEX09900ZW000053@mauve.mrochek.com> <Pine.BSO.4.64.0704021251520.18303@vanye.mho.net> <01MEY6R7GWIU000053@mauve.mrochek.com> <Pine.BSO.4.64.0704022315330.3678@vanye.mho.net> To: Philip Guenther <guenther+mtafilters@sendmail.com> DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nowsp; d=mrochek.com; s=mauve; t=1175793630; h=Date: From:Subject:MIME-version:Content-type; b=ofScA1UFYlDBhoUwWZyrdTyOY PHoZ9CquxAWunrgmZZifpo2Y7P9ozCeVqDRw2wDyu4CEjn9HADwZ7cI3+c75A== Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> > On Mon, 2 Apr 2007, Ned Freed wrote: > ... > > Sorry, missed that was one of the core rules. But that makes me wonder > > if LWSP wouldn't be more appropriate... > That's an interesting idea, as it would let you 'wrap' a string in the > script without including the CRLF in the string's value. Hmm. > > We also have a card-before-the-horse problem, in that we don't refer to > > the use of ABNF for defining our grammars until section 8.1 but the ABNF > > for encoded-character is in 2.4.2.4. (Well, to be fair, we do mention > > ABNF in the conventions section, but only to compare it to how Usage: > > statements are constructed.) The customary way to do this is to put the > > reference to ABNF in the conventions section. I can understand not > > bothering when ABNF was only used in one place, but that's no longer > > true. > True. There's also no real explanation of the "Syntax:" lines that > 'define' MATCH-TYPE, COMPARATOR, and ADDRESS-PART, although real ABNF for > those is included in section 8.2. <sigh> Perhaps this should be dealt > with by > (1) including a specific statement in section 1.1 that ABNF is used for > other syntax specifications in the body of the text, and > (2) replacing those "Syntax:" lines with their actual ABNF versions. > (This is turning into a long RFC editors note. It's feeling like I should > pull together the changes and submit a new rev...) > > Finally, I wonder if we should be explicit about how encoded-character > > constructs interact with text: blocks. My reading is that they should work. > > Does everyone else agree? > If it's a string, then encoded-character affects its interpretation. > text: blocks are strings. > MPP The interpretation of text: blocks is affected by encoded-character > In addition, 2.4.2.4 specifically notes that encoded-character processing > happens after dot-unstuffing, which only applies to text: blocks. I think that's good enough then - the inference is clear. Ned Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l357nZ9I007758 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 5 Apr 2007 00:49:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l357nZ8U007757; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 00:49:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mout2.freenet.de (mout2.freenet.de [194.97.50.155]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l357nWoY007750 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 00:49:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from michael.haardt@freenet.ag) Received: from [194.97.55.192] (helo=mx8.freenet.de) by mout2.freenet.de with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from <michael.haardt@freenet.ag>) id 1HZMiq-0006It-3x for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 09:49:32 +0200 Received: from nostromo.freenet-ag.de ([194.97.7.6]:37093) by mx8.freenet.de with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (port 25) (Exim 4.67 #6) id 1HZMiq-0004rb-2j for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 09:49:32 +0200 Received: from michael by nostromo.freenet-ag.de with local (ID michael) (Exim 4.67 #6) id 1HZMin-0005iK-LJ for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 09:49:29 +0200 Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 09:49:29 +0200 To: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Re: Implementing encoded-character References: <E1HZ0am-0004Yj-FC@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175676713.26520.91.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ1i6-0004b3-SV@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175686699.26520.160.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ4Yb-0005Im-4o@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175757601.28555.121.camel@localhost> In-Reply-To: <1175757601.28555.121.camel@localhost> User-Agent: Heirloom mailx 12.1 6/15/06 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <E1HZMin-0005iK-LJ@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> From: Michael Haardt <michael.haardt@freenet.ag> Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> > > Hmm, right, variables contain no arguments and we don't have functions > > yet. Thinking about string expressions, I certainly would like to > > have CRLF as white space, but I also would like embedded comments in > > that case. Just looking at encoded-character, I see no need for CRLF > > and even have an odd feeling with, but considering it as syntactic > > prototype for string expressions, both CRLF and comments sound useful. > > I kind of like the idea of things that look like variables but are > functions operating on the right side of the colon. > > We had a bit of discussion in Prague about list expansions that access > external data sources. This would certainly be one way to handle it, > though we'd have to be careful about strict vs. lazy evaluation. Anyhow, > that should probably be the subject of a separate thread. I suggest to look at Exim and the Exim filter, and their string expressions, as a live and working example that's very similar. > > > > "${unicode:200000}" -> error > > > > "${unicode:2000000}" -> "${unicode:2000000}" > > Ugh, if it looks like encoded-char and walks like encoded-char... That's the point. > My test implementation left-shifts the current value of the encoded > character, then adds the next hex digit. When it hits whitespace, it > checks if the value is within appropriate bounds; if so, stores the > character then loops, if not, stores '?' then loops. Would we really > rather be very strict about this? I'm in favor of some flexibility. Given you use C and unsigned integers, or signed ones on a common architecture where overflows are ignored, you already have a problem. You could stop aggregating after the 6th nibble, simply parsing more, and then generate an overflow error if there are really more. I suggest to make the specification a bit more flexible and have implementations obey it strictly. Michael Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l357Ik0v004692 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 5 Apr 2007 00:18:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l357IkY2004691; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 00:18:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.serendipity.cx (serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us [66.92.2.87]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l357IPkW004669 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 00:18:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from aaron@serendipity.cx) Received: from [192.168.1.158] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.serendipity.cx (Postfix) with ESMTP id A08A75CC8; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 00:19:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Implementing encoded-character From: Aaron Stone <aaron@serendipity.cx> To: Michael Haardt <michael.haardt@freenet.ag> Cc: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org In-Reply-To: <E1HZ4Yb-0005Im-4o@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> References: <E1HZ0am-0004Yj-FC@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175676713.26520.91.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ1i6-0004b3-SV@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175686699.26520.160.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ4Yb-0005Im-4o@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 00:20:01 -0700 Message-Id: <1175757601.28555.121.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.10.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> On Wed, 2007-04-04 at 14:25 +0200, Michael Haardt wrote: > > > > yes. whitespace is only allowed between hex-pairs. btw, how do you > > > > feel about allowing CRLF as well as SPC and TAB between hex-pairs? > > > > Is CRLF allowed inside other ${} expressions (variables)? > > > variables doesn't allow any whitespace at all. > > Hmm, right, variables contain no arguments and we don't have functions > yet. Thinking about string expressions, I certainly would like to > have CRLF as white space, but I also would like embedded comments in > that case. Just looking at encoded-character, I see no need for CRLF > and even have an odd feeling with, but considering it as syntactic > prototype for string expressions, both CRLF and comments sound useful. I kind of like the idea of things that look like variables but are functions operating on the right side of the colon. We had a bit of discussion in Prague about list expansions that access external data sources. This would certainly be one way to handle it, though we'd have to be careful about strict vs. lazy evaluation. Anyhow, that should probably be the subject of a separate thread. > > > Before looking at it, I expected that if ${hex: is found, it would be > > > an error if it were not followed by arguments and a closing brace. > > > > well, you don't need to backtrack much: > > It's no problem really, just confusing. If someone starts to write > ${hex:, most likely he meant to encode data. Only CS people think stuff > like "it's not a word of the grammar, thus of course being an literal > as specified". ;-) I agree, it'd be confusing for that to happen. [snip] > > > "${unicode:200000}" -> error > > > "${unicode:2000000}" -> "${unicode:2000000}" Ugh, if it looks like encoded-char and walks like encoded-char... My test implementation left-shifts the current value of the encoded character, then adds the next hex digit. When it hits whitespace, it checks if the value is within appropriate bounds; if so, stores the character then loops, if not, stores '?' then loops. Would we really rather be very strict about this? I'm in favor of some flexibility. Aaron Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3574Zp7002240 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 5 Apr 2007 00:04:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3574ZQW002239; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 00:04:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.237]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3574CmN002230 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 00:04:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from vihanpandey@gmail.com) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 50so305375wri for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 00:04:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=m2bmCfd3ofB0dLru7C2zeQwpCJ6eKIAwcgINO8CZx4dAdRkKpY3UinZafG9Ri5bud7aChss1XtxCeGnUpDC8MQZY+8XoOvQeB0sOonWtWSidmhS276haHGmNOJPc7bKcIVQRI6JQQB91u1/RU+gXmxMwh5lly6g1p0ii0WD/n10= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=W+0PR9LymjpaasU60HNvDdonoi7IhkEZ34KMg2U6uRyajLcIY2iAvdmwAqJKBZWw0mobq8U75VAyOdeP5chgoBCy+pW+T++I44I6RbtGcFmn8InXlXRAMwAz6L3JrP0uSMxRwK5InNcBnYnLa9LCC8KHlQj8hlVLBrl4E6kTZQw= Received: by 10.114.56.1 with SMTP id e1mr584184waa.1175756650101; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 00:04:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.25.9 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 00:04:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <9832c98e0704050004t1ab1274bg85ca5b6845d934d9@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 12:34:10 +0530 From: "Vihan Pandey" <vihanpandey@gmail.com> To: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Re: sieve frequency based filtering Cc: "Arnt Gulbrandsen" <arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no> In-Reply-To: <SJfRRbz66xXIdvG4SJzutA.md5@libertango.oryx.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_49084_4971106.1175756650068" References: <9832c98e0704042303h38365267rf163f57ab266da25@mail.gmail.com> <SJfRRbz66xXIdvG4SJzutA.md5@libertango.oryx.com> Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> ------=_Part_49084_4971106.1175756650068 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline > That'll be fun when your server comes up after some downtime and lots of > queued mail is delivered in the first few minutes. Good Point. However that aside if i have a situation of say 500,000 emails a day from a single address that's something wherein that kind of a functionality might prove useful. It's clearly suspicious behavior and ought to be filtered. > Is it possible to do this in the current version of sieve? If yes how? > > No. Thanks for your prompt reply Arnt :-) Regards, - vihan ------=_Part_49084_4971106.1175756650068 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline <br> <div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">That'll be fun when your server comes up after some downtime and lots of<br>queued mail is delivered in the first few minutes. </blockquote><div><br> Good Point. However that aside if i have a situation of say 500,000 emails a day from a single address that's something wherein that kind of a functionality might prove useful. It's clearly suspicious behavior and ought to be filtered.<br> </div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">> Is it possible to do this in the current version of sieve? If yes how?<br><br> No.</blockquote><div><br> Thanks for your prompt reply Arnt :-)<br> <br> Regards,<br> <br> - vihan<br> <br> <br> </div></div><br> ------=_Part_49084_4971106.1175756650068-- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l356sFRf001497 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 4 Apr 2007 23:54:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l356sFR3001496; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 23:54:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from kalyani.oryx.com ([195.30.37.30]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l356rs06001473 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 23:54:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no) Received: from libertango.oryx.com (libertango.oryx.com [195.30.37.9]) by kalyani.oryx.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DD1F4AC23; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 08:53:55 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <SJfRRbz66xXIdvG4SJzutA.md5@libertango.oryx.com> Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 08:52:15 +0200 From: Arnt Gulbrandsen <arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no> To: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Re: sieve frequency based filtering Cc: Vihan Pandey <vihanpandey@gmail.com> References: <9832c98e0704042303h38365267rf163f57ab266da25@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <9832c98e0704042303h38365267rf163f57ab266da25@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> Vihan Pandey writes: > Hello, > i'm new on this list, and i wanted to ask if frequency(with respect > to time slots) based filtering is possible in sieve. > > e.g i'm getting 10 emails from foo@bar.com in 1 minute - thus i want > to block any emails that are arriving greater than or equal to 10 in > number in 1 minute. That'll be fun when your server comes up after some downtime and lots of queued mail is delivered in the first few minutes. > Is it possible to do this in the current version of sieve? If yes how? No. Arnt Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3563kqf096647 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 4 Apr 2007 23:03:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3563k8O096646; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 23:03:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from nz-out-0506.google.com (nz-out-0506.google.com [64.233.162.227]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3563OK4096634 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 23:03:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from vihanpandey@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id n1so242594nzf for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 23:03:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=FWA7BVfu5HG0AfT7vcGgFHbtZApMFmxuwu6xLCaN1u1S2t4L3RRG+bgyEOgWUZcaqxbhYrWTA3N9CsKetbhrc3l5+idlaqB2B6JUG4o3T47JnZCn10tWh1yItZAPnBtXBPk+K9CR7Uz5Y9b81obdmuKLSK2vNC5XCZAR7MZke/4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=ulSA6E5V/Ha4Bg3YQewBKOvJ/WYdib3u7zVsGGxZ2V6UX0HJoAPS/6arCIVUVqEbPpG3m3AEbXxrhW3Dz5T+5aGoc0qzqNhU8/vH/9pRYIa9nj0LIJ74M/s1dFOm1F6WQ32y6Ni4gdu/RxBGgaPyPNLEVLO1UTfG3JroEgGbyg8= Received: by 10.114.25.3 with SMTP id 3mr605732way.1175753002419; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 23:03:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.25.9 with HTTP; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 23:03:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <9832c98e0704042303h38365267rf163f57ab266da25@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 11:33:22 +0530 From: "Vihan Pandey" <vihanpandey@gmail.com> To: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: sieve frequency based filtering MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_48350_25164756.1175753002386" Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> ------=_Part_48350_25164756.1175753002386 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hello, i'm new on this list, and i wanted to ask if frequency(with respect to time slots) based filtering is possible in sieve. e.g i'm getting 10 emails from foo@bar.com in 1 minute - thus i want to block any emails that are arriving greater than or equal to 10 in number in 1 minute. Is it possible to do this in the current version of sieve? If yes how? i've checked the draft on : http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3028.txt?number=3028 and the new draft on : http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sieve-3028bis-12.txt But i couldn't figure out how i would do such a filtering. Regards, - vihan ------=_Part_48350_25164756.1175753002386 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline <span><br> Hello,<br> i'm new on this list, and i wanted to ask if frequency(with respect to time slots) based filtering is possible in sieve.<br> <br> e.g i'm getting 10 emails from <a href="mailto:foo@bar.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">foo@bar.com</a> in 1 minute - thus i want to block any emails that are arriving greater than or equal to 10 in number in 1 minute.<br> <br> Is it possible to do this in the current version of sieve? If yes how?<br> <br> i've checked the draft on : <a href="http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3028.txt?number=3028">http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3028.txt?number=3028</a><br> <br> and the new draft on : <a href="http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sieve-3028bis-12.txt">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sieve-3028bis-12.txt</a><br> <br> But i couldn't figure out how i would do such a filtering.<br> <br> Regards,<br> <br> - vihan<br> <br> </span> ------=_Part_48350_25164756.1175753002386-- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l34CQ8VO054471 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 4 Apr 2007 05:26:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l34CQ8Lg054470; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 05:26:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mout0.freenet.de (mout0.freenet.de [194.97.50.131]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l34CPkU9054422 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 05:26:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from michael.haardt@freenet.ag) Received: from [194.97.50.138] (helo=mx0.freenet.de) by mout0.freenet.de with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from <michael.haardt@freenet.ag>) id 1HZ4Yb-0003Yd-SL for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 14:25:45 +0200 Received: from nostromo.freenet-ag.de ([194.97.7.6]:54342) by mx0.freenet.de with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (port 25) (Exim 4.67 #6) id 1HZ4Yb-0004pw-RH for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 14:25:45 +0200 Received: from michael by nostromo.freenet-ag.de with local (ID michael) (Exim 4.67 #6) id 1HZ4Yb-0005Im-4o for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 14:25:45 +0200 Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 14:25:45 +0200 To: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Re: Implementing encoded-character References: <E1HZ0am-0004Yj-FC@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175676713.26520.91.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ1i6-0004b3-SV@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175686699.26520.160.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> In-Reply-To: <1175686699.26520.160.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> User-Agent: Heirloom mailx 12.1 6/15/06 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <E1HZ4Yb-0005Im-4o@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> From: Michael Haardt <michael.haardt@freenet.ag> Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> > > > yes. whitespace is only allowed between hex-pairs. btw, how do you > > > feel about allowing CRLF as well as SPC and TAB between hex-pairs? > > Is CRLF allowed inside other ${} expressions (variables)? > variables doesn't allow any whitespace at all. Hmm, right, variables contain no arguments and we don't have functions yet. Thinking about string expressions, I certainly would like to have CRLF as white space, but I also would like embedded comments in that case. Just looking at encoded-character, I see no need for CRLF and even have an odd feeling with, but considering it as syntactic prototype for string expressions, both CRLF and comments sound useful. > > Before looking at it, I expected that if ${hex: is found, it would be > > an error if it were not followed by arguments and a closing brace. > > well, you don't need to backtrack much: It's no problem really, just confusing. If someone starts to write ${hex:, most likely he meant to encode data. Only CS people think stuff like "it's not a word of the grammar, thus of course being an literal as specified". ;-) > > "${unicode:200000}" -> error > > "${unicode:2000000}" -> "${unicode:2000000}" > > > > I don't particularly like that, because most likely the second was > > never meant that way. Is there any way to change that at this point? > you want to change unicode-hex to 1*HEXDIG instead? the wording should > already handle it, so it's just the ABNF which needs a tweak. that's > fine with me. I think it's Philip's call. Yes, that would be more logical. I consider ${hex: and ${unicode: as functions of constant arguments. No matter which argument is passed to them: Syntax errors (like a missing brace) should cause an error, and semantic errors like range overflows should cause an error, too. It's bizarre to see 0x200000 being an overflow, but 0x2000000 causing everything to be taken literally. Michael Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l34BchS6050501 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 4 Apr 2007 04:38:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l34BchuV050500; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 04:38:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from pat.uio.no (pat.uio.no [129.240.10.15]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l34BcKF8050491 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 04:38:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kjetilho@ifi.uio.no) Received: from mail-mx2.uio.no ([129.240.10.30]) by pat.uio.no with esmtp (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no>) id 1HZ3oi-00089U-A5; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 13:38:20 +0200 Received: from smtp.uio.no ([129.240.10.9] helo=mail-mx2.uio.no) by mail-mx2.uio.no with esmtp (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no>) id 1HZ3oh-00052e-Vh; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 13:38:20 +0200 Received: from havhest.ifi.uio.no ([129.240.68.231]) by mail-mx2.uio.no with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no>) id 1HZ3oh-00052b-T4; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 13:38:19 +0200 Subject: Re: Implementing encoded-character From: Kjetil Torgrim Homme <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no> To: Michael Haardt <michael.haardt@freenet.ag> Cc: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org In-Reply-To: <E1HZ1i6-0004b3-SV@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> References: <E1HZ0am-0004Yj-FC@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175676713.26520.91.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <E1HZ1i6-0004b3-SV@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 13:38:18 +0200 Message-Id: <1175686699.26520.160.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UiO-SPF-Received: X-UiO-Resend: resent X-UiO-SPF-Received: X-UiO-Spam-info: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-4.9, required=12.0, autolearn=disabled, AWL=0.099,UIO_MAIL_IS_INTERNAL=-5) X-UiO-Scanned: 98E344C4501E4F9444DD498C7764A86438649242 X-UiO-SPAM-Test: remote_host: 129.240.10.9 spam_score: -48 maxlevel 200 minaction 2 bait 0 mail/h: 408 total 896146 max/h 7466 blacklist 0 greylist 0 ratelimit 0 Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> On Wed, 2007-04-04 at 11:23 +0200, Michael Haardt wrote: > > yes. whitespace is only allowed between hex-pairs. btw, how do you > > feel about allowing CRLF as well as SPC and TAB between hex-pairs? > > Is CRLF allowed inside other ${} expressions (variables)? variables doesn't allow any whitespace at all. > > I don't understand this statement. > > The grammar matches words inside the character sequence that makes up a > string. No matter how much of a word is matched, if it is not complete, > it will be taken as the literal character sequence. That means you > need infinite look-ahead. > > Before looking at it, I expected that if ${hex: is found, it would be > an error if it were not followed by arguments and a closing brace. well, you don't need to backtrack much: ${unicode:cafe ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab add ${hex:40 41}} you just go along, and as soon as you find a syntax "error", you bail and copy what you've buffered so far verbatim (in this case, "${unicode: ... add "), then restart the state machine. worst case, the buffering is the size of the script plus storage for the decoded Unicode characters while parsing the script. > So we have: > > "${unicode:200000}" -> error > "${unicode:2000000}" -> "${unicode:2000000}" > > I don't particularly like that, because most likely the second was > never meant that way. Is there any way to change that at this point? you want to change unicode-hex to 1*HEXDIG instead? the wording should already handle it, so it's just the ABNF which needs a tweak. that's fine with me. I think it's Philip's call. -- Kjetil T. Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l349NPhI039114 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 4 Apr 2007 02:23:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l349NP6K039113; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 02:23:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mout1.freenet.de (mout1.freenet.de [194.97.50.132]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l349NOUx039107 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 02:23:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from michael.haardt@freenet.ag) Received: from [194.97.55.190] (helo=mx6.freenet.de) by mout1.freenet.de with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from <michael.haardt@freenet.ag>) id 1HZ1i7-0004ao-Ba for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 11:23:23 +0200 Received: from nostromo.freenet-ag.de ([194.97.7.6]:59035) by mx6.freenet.de with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (port 25) (Exim 4.67 #6) id 1HZ1i7-0001tG-Am for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 11:23:23 +0200 Received: from michael by nostromo.freenet-ag.de with local (ID michael) (Exim 4.67 #6) id 1HZ1i6-0004b3-SV for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 11:23:22 +0200 Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 11:23:22 +0200 To: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Re: Implementing encoded-character References: <E1HZ0am-0004Yj-FC@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> <1175676713.26520.91.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> In-Reply-To: <1175676713.26520.91.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> User-Agent: Heirloom mailx 12.1 6/15/06 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <E1HZ1i6-0004b3-SV@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> From: Michael Haardt <michael.haardt@freenet.ag> Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> > > "${hex:40" -> "${hex:40" > > "${hex: 40 }" -> "${hex: 40 }" > > yes. whitespace is only allowed between hex-pairs. btw, how do you > feel about allowing CRLF as well as SPC and TAB between hex-pairs? Is CRLF allowed inside other ${} expressions (variables)? > > "${unicode:40}" -> "${unicode:40}" > > no, this is "@". Good thing I asked. I just reread RFC 2234 and found out that I have to read 1*6HEXDIG as 1*6(HEXDIG), not as 1*(6HEXDIG). > > There is no word of the encoded-character grammar inside the string, > > taking everything literal. > I don't understand this statement. The grammar matches words inside the character sequence that makes up a string. No matter how much of a word is matched, if it is not complete, it will be taken as the literal character sequence. That means you need infinite look-ahead. Before looking at it, I expected that if ${hex: is found, it would be an error if it were not followed by arguments and a closing brace. > > "${hex:40${hex:40}}" -> "${hex:40$} > > no, "${hex:40@}" Oops, I meant to write @. But you agree on my interpretation how things are processed. > > "${unicode:020000}" -> error > > > > Unicode range violation. > > no, U+20000 is inside the Unicode range. ${unicode:0020000} fails due > to not matching unicode-hex (too many digits), ${unicode:200000} fails > due to being outside the Unicode range. My mistake, again. So we have: "${unicode:200000}" -> error "${unicode:2000000}" -> "${unicode:2000000}" I don't particularly like that, because most likely the second was never meant that way. Is there any way to change that at this point? Michael Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l348pvOo037152 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 4 Apr 2007 01:51:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l348pv9r037151; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 01:51:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from pat.uio.no (pat.uio.no [129.240.10.15]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l348ptG4037142 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 01:51:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kjetilho@ifi.uio.no) Received: from mail-mx1.uio.no ([129.240.10.29]) by pat.uio.no with esmtp (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no>) id 1HZ1De-0000T1-Nh; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 10:51:54 +0200 Received: from smtp.uio.no ([129.240.10.9] helo=mail-mx1.uio.no) by mail-mx1.uio.no with esmtp (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no>) id 1HZ1De-0008WQ-EH; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 10:51:54 +0200 Received: from havhest.ifi.uio.no ([129.240.68.231]) by mail-mx1.uio.no with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no>) id 1HZ1De-0008WN-BQ; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 10:51:54 +0200 Subject: Re: Implementing encoded-character From: Kjetil Torgrim Homme <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no> To: Michael Haardt <michael.haardt@freenet.ag> Cc: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org In-Reply-To: <E1HZ0am-0004Yj-FC@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> References: <E1HZ0am-0004Yj-FC@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 10:51:52 +0200 Message-Id: <1175676713.26520.91.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UiO-SPF-Received: X-UiO-Resend: resent X-UiO-SPF-Received: X-UiO-Spam-info: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-4.8, required=12.0, autolearn=disabled, AWL=0.223,UIO_MAIL_IS_INTERNAL=-5) X-UiO-Scanned: C44779C403615A393786CEA2B77AB6A657CF090F X-UiO-SPAM-Test: remote_host: 129.240.10.9 spam_score: -47 maxlevel 200 minaction 2 bait 0 mail/h: 613 total 893281 max/h 7466 blacklist 0 greylist 0 ratelimit 0 Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> On Wed, 2007-04-04 at 10:11 +0200, Michael Haardt wrote: > Exim will implement encoded-character RSN, excellent! > but I wonder if I understood things correctly: > > "$${hex:40}" -> "$@" yes. > A dollar does not have to be quoted, does it? right, only for very unlikely sequences. > "${hex:40" -> "${hex:40" > "${hex: 40 }" -> "${hex: 40 }" yes. whitespace is only allowed between hex-pairs. btw, how do you feel about allowing CRLF as well as SPC and TAB between hex-pairs? > "${hex:400}" -> "${hex:400}" yes, hex-pair can't be three digits. > "${unicode:40}" -> "${unicode:40}" no, this is "@". > "${unicode:1000000}" -> "${unicode:1000000}" yes. > There is no word of the encoded-character grammar inside the string, > taking everything literal. I don't understand this statement. > "${hex:40${hex:40}}" -> "${hex:40$} no, "${hex:40@}" > It looks nested, but actually it's just some junk around a word of the > grammar. > > "${unicode:020000}" -> error > > Unicode range violation. no, U+20000 is inside the Unicode range. ${unicode:0020000} fails due to not matching unicode-hex (too many digits), ${unicode:200000} fails due to being outside the Unicode range. -- Kjetil T. Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l348C8me035150 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 4 Apr 2007 01:12:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l348C8qG035149; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 01:12:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mout1.freenet.de (mout1.freenet.de [194.97.50.132]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l348BkC3035136 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 01:12:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from michael.haardt@freenet.ag) Received: from [194.97.55.192] (helo=mx8.freenet.de) by mout1.freenet.de with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from <michael.haardt@freenet.ag>) id 1HZ0an-0004LN-1d for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 10:11:45 +0200 Received: from nostromo.freenet-ag.de ([194.97.7.6]:42646) by mx8.freenet.de with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (port 25) (Exim 4.67 #6) id 1HZ0an-0000GY-0Q for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 10:11:45 +0200 Received: from michael by nostromo.freenet-ag.de with local (ID michael) (Exim 4.67 #6) id 1HZ0am-0004Yj-FC for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 10:11:44 +0200 Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 10:11:44 +0200 To: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Implementing encoded-character User-Agent: Heirloom mailx 12.1 6/15/06 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <E1HZ0am-0004Yj-FC@nostromo.freenet-ag.de> From: Michael Haardt <michael.haardt@freenet.ag> Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> Hello, Exim will implement encoded-character RSN, but I wonder if I understood things correctly: "$${hex:40}" -> "$@" A dollar does not have to be quoted, does it? "${hex:40" -> "${hex:40" "${hex: 40 }" -> "${hex: 40 }" "${hex:400}" -> "${hex:400}" "${unicode:40}" -> "${unicode:40}" "${unicode:1000000}" -> "${unicode:1000000}" There is no word of the encoded-character grammar inside the string, taking everything literal. "${hex:40${hex:40}}" -> "${hex:40$} It looks nested, but actually it's just some junk around a word of the grammar. "${unicode:020000}" -> error Unicode range violation. Michael Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l347kLtS032719 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 4 Apr 2007 00:46:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l347kLko032718; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 00:46:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from pat.uio.no (pat.uio.no [129.240.10.15]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l347jxKT032706 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 00:46:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kjetilho@ifi.uio.no) Received: from mail-mx2.uio.no ([129.240.10.30]) by pat.uio.no with esmtp (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no>) id 1HZ0Bm-0004lD-4S; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 09:45:54 +0200 Received: from smtp.uio.no ([129.240.10.9] helo=mail-mx2.uio.no) by mail-mx2.uio.no with esmtp (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no>) id 1HZ0Bl-00025K-No; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 09:45:54 +0200 Received: from havhest.ifi.uio.no ([129.240.68.231]) by mail-mx2.uio.no with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no>) id 1HZ0Bl-00025H-KM; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 09:45:53 +0200 Subject: Re: comments on draft-freed-sieve-notary From: Kjetil Torgrim Homme <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no> To: Philip Guenther <guenther+mtafilters@sendmail.com> Cc: ned.freed@mrochek.com, ietf-mta-filters@imc.org, tony+msgtrk@maillennium.att.com In-Reply-To: <20070403202614.B33997@lab.smi.sendmail.com> References: <Pine.BSO.4.64.0704021338030.18303@vanye.mho.net> <1175650185.26520.36.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> <20070403202614.B33997@lab.smi.sendmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 09:45:51 +0200 Message-Id: <1175672752.26520.78.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UiO-SPF-Received: X-UiO-Resend: resent X-UiO-SPF-Received: X-UiO-Spam-info: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-4.9, required=12.0, autolearn=disabled, AWL=0.103,UIO_MAIL_IS_INTERNAL=-5) X-UiO-Scanned: D3365A793F4D295D57DBADFA21B499C007B408B1 X-UiO-SPAM-Test: remote_host: 129.240.10.9 spam_score: -48 maxlevel 200 minaction 2 bait 0 mail/h: 438 total 892494 max/h 7466 blacklist 0 greylist 0 ratelimit 0 Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> On Tue, 2007-04-03 at 22:07 -0700, Philip Guenther wrote: > On Wed, 4 Apr 2007, Kjetil Torgrim Homme wrote: > > On Mon, 2007-04-02 at 14:58 -0600, Philip Guenther wrote: > ... > >> (Hurm. RFC 3885's seems at least mildly broken, as it apparently implies > >> that an "@" is not the same as its xtext encoded version.) > > > > why do you think that is (mildly) broken? okay, it says "the syntax of > > ENVID from RFC 3461 is extended [...]" when it's really *restricting* > > it. > > It implies that > MAIL FROM:<guenther@sendmail.com> ENVID=foo@sendmail.com > is not the same as > MAIL FROM:<guenther@sendmail.com> ENVID=foo+40sendmail.com I don't think that's true for the specific example -- 3885 says it only modifies the ENVID parameter syntax when a MTRK parameter is present. if I understand correctly, a message can't be "upgraded" to use MTRK, only the original sender can set a MTRK tracking identity. when a message passes from MTRK+DSN to DSN only, MTRK is removed and ENVID is kept intact, and DSN has loose interpretation of ENVID. while the message is in the MTRK domain, the ENVID parameter must contain at least one verbatim "@". fqhn can contain neither verbatim nor encoded "@", so there is no ambiguity. > changing xtext from purely an encoding to at least partially an escaping > mechanism. You have to save the raw envid and not the decoded form. > Does message tracking still work if a relaying MTA changes which > characters in the envid are xtext encoded? Certainly not if there's more > than one '@' in the fully decoded form... I agree the requirement for a verbatim "@" is not very pretty, and probably not intended. Tony, what do you say? > >> This extension provides a means to test the notary values on incoming > >> messages, but not set them on messages sent via 'redirect'. > > > > I guess you mean the NOTIFY parameter here, I don't think we want to > > allow users to play with any of the others. that could probably be > > useful (in particular NOTIFY=NEVER). I don't think it needs to be in a > > separate capability. > > RET, and maybe ENVID, could also be useful. The redirected message may > have an ORCPT pointing at the redirecting account automatically added if > it didn't have one before (per RFC 3461, 5.2.1(d)) *and* the envelope > sender is not changed by the implementation's 'redirect' command. I'm skeptical to allowing access to ENVID, since Sieve has no facility for generating guaranteed unique tokens. at most we should allow the user to specify a cookie to be embedded in the system's generated ENVID. good point about ORCPT, but you're not advocating that the user should be allowed to influence it, are you? in my opinion, the interaction between "redirect" and ORCPT is not relevant for this document since it is relevant for all mail systems which implement DSN. in other words, it should be in the base spec -- something for 3028ter? > > (also a tiny typo, "case-insensitivie", and I think it should say "SMTP > > RCPT TO command", not "SMTP RCPT command") > > Disagree. It should say "ESMTP RCPT command" to match RFC 3461. okay, in that case "SMTP MAIL FROM" should be changed to "ESMTP MAIL", too. -- Kjetil T. Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3457vML023066 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 3 Apr 2007 22:07:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3457v0Z023065; Tue, 3 Apr 2007 22:07:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from foon.sendmail.com (smtp-out.sendmail.com [209.246.26.45]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3457aO7023050 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Tue, 3 Apr 2007 22:07:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from guenther+mtafilters@sendmail.com) Received: from lab.smi.sendmail.com ([10.210.100.93]) by foon.sendmail.com (Switch-3.2.5/Switch-3.2.0) with ESMTP id l3459pLv019965 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 3 Apr 2007 22:09:51 -0700 X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v0.5.1 foon.sendmail.com l3459pLv019965 DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/simple; d=sendmail.com; s=tls.dkim; t=1175663405; bh=eeTc9FoDgwQIL37qtzSA2uREzp0=; h=X-DomainKeys: DomainKey-Signature:Date:From:X-X-Sender:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To: Message-ID:References:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=eCV1ofwIa/JPpGBC kxEeYZPuqdbMjUQub6ANo+taXwL3NKgc9bkYncEIs98n69OeePlr46v9bDTZm9D+gFo YZCwgn3mdMve0TKzBaeGRz0oh/FZaUAXlm8fG9/VdwhSs+2XT7K+v/g30K+BgB234Gi WM42YUb4yEd0feaN289nQ= X-DomainKeys: Sendmail DomainKeys Filter v0.4.1 foon.sendmail.com l3459pLv019965 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=tls; d=sendmail.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=date:from:x-x-sender:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id: references:mime-version:content-type; b=gF6XggJUBJNxYrnerk3Efa4yn3r0qkPRAmKe+VtQZFx5PEW6sdom69ps1rJRB2ZlI uIHTTyT2ygFJB0x82QLc3Oesro4T77+m6evoTI+WSyQg5hIaS0j8LI13oQ5OV3sKuSj CzXH+2exezw4qUOUY9r4PLK6YZWni7750xmPi+c= Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 22:07:03 -0700 From: Philip Guenther <guenther+mtafilters@sendmail.com> X-X-Sender: guenther@lab.smi.sendmail.com To: Kjetil Torgrim Homme <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no> cc: ned.freed@mrochek.com, ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Re: comments on draft-freed-sieve-notary In-Reply-To: <1175650185.26520.36.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> Message-ID: <20070403202614.B33997@lab.smi.sendmail.com> References: <Pine.BSO.4.64.0704021338030.18303@vanye.mho.net> <1175650185.26520.36.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> On Wed, 4 Apr 2007, Kjetil Torgrim Homme wrote: > On Mon, 2007-04-02 at 14:58 -0600, Philip Guenther wrote: ... >> (Hurm. RFC 3885's seems at least mildly broken, as it apparently implies >> that an "@" is not the same as its xtext encoded version.) > > why do you think that is (mildly) broken? okay, it says "the syntax of > ENVID from RFC 3461 is extended [...]" when it's really *restricting* > it. It implies that MAIL FROM:<guenther@sendmail.com> ENVID=foo@sendmail.com is not the same as MAIL FROM:<guenther@sendmail.com> ENVID=foo+40sendmail.com changing xtext from purely an encoding to at least partially an escaping mechanism. You have to save the raw envid and not the decoded form. Does message tracking still work if a relaying MTA changes which characters in the envid are xtext encoded? Certainly not if there's more than one '@' in the fully decoded form... >> This extension provides a means to test the notary values on incoming >> messages, but not set them on messages sent via 'redirect'. > > I guess you mean the NOTIFY parameter here, I don't think we want to > allow users to play with any of the others. that could probably be > useful (in particular NOTIFY=NEVER). I don't think it needs to be in a > separate capability. RET, and maybe ENVID, could also be useful. The redirected message may have an ORCPT pointing at the redirecting account automatically added if it didn't have one before (per RFC 3461, 5.2.1(d)) *and* the envelope sender is not changed by the implementation's 'redirect' command. > another comment on the draft: > > orcpt Match the original recipient, or ORCPT, value in decoded form > associated with the TO address used in the SMTP RCPT command that > resulted in this message getting delivered to this user. The > syntax and semantics of the ORCPT parameter are defined in RFC > 3461 [RFC3461] section 4.2. > > is the addr-type ("rfc822;") part of the value supposed to be stripped > off? perhaps we should extend ADDRESS-PART to make this explicit? or > we could say that :localpart and :domain strips off addr-type, but when > neither is specified, the complete value is used. Ooog, this get ugly when the type _isn't_ rfc822. Hmmm... > (also a tiny typo, "case-insensitivie", and I think it should say "SMTP > RCPT TO command", not "SMTP RCPT command") Disagree. It should say "ESMTP RCPT command" to match RFC 3461. Philip Guenther Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l341l3wC013450 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 3 Apr 2007 18:47:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l341l3l3013449; Tue, 3 Apr 2007 18:47:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from pat.uio.no (pat.uio.no [129.240.10.15]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l341l1Wc013442 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Tue, 3 Apr 2007 18:47:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kjetilho@ifi.uio.no) Received: from mail-mx2.uio.no ([129.240.10.30]) by pat.uio.no with esmtp (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no>) id 1HYuaO-00023T-E9; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 03:46:56 +0200 Received: from smtp.uio.no ([129.240.10.9] helo=mail-mx2.uio.no) by mail-mx2.uio.no with esmtp (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no>) id 1HYuaO-0005VM-6D; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 03:46:56 +0200 Received: from havhest.ifi.uio.no ([129.240.68.231]) by mail-mx2.uio.no with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no>) id 1HYuaO-0005VJ-39; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 03:46:56 +0200 Subject: Re: Support for encoded-character From: Kjetil Torgrim Homme <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no> To: Philip Guenther <guenther+mtafilters@sendmail.com> Cc: Ned Freed <ned.freed@mrochek.com>, Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com>, ietf-mta-filters@imc.org In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.64.0704022315330.3678@vanye.mho.net> References: <1174444371.31407.125.camel@localhost> <4606EB9D.30209@isode.com> <01MEX09900ZW000053@mauve.mrochek.com> <Pine.BSO.4.64.0704021251520.18303@vanye.mho.net> <01MEY6R7GWIU000053@mauve.mrochek.com> <Pine.BSO.4.64.0704022315330.3678@vanye.mho.net> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 03:46:54 +0200 Message-Id: <1175651215.26520.46.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UiO-SPF-Received: X-UiO-Resend: resent X-UiO-SPF-Received: X-UiO-Spam-info: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-4.9, required=12.0, autolearn=disabled, AWL=0.103,UIO_MAIL_IS_INTERNAL=-5) X-UiO-Scanned: 7BA464F97288341CA3CD029A5A08B7059A24AD75 X-UiO-SPAM-Test: remote_host: 129.240.10.9 spam_score: -48 maxlevel 200 minaction 2 bait 0 mail/h: 96 total 891005 max/h 7466 blacklist 0 greylist 0 ratelimit 0 Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> On Mon, 2007-04-02 at 23:36 -0600, Philip Guenther wrote: > On Mon, 2 Apr 2007, Ned Freed wrote: > > Sorry, missed that was one of the core rules. But that makes me wonder > > if LWSP wouldn't be more appropriate... > > That's an interesting idea, as it would let you 'wrap' a string in the > script without including the CRLF in the string's value. Hmm. that could be useful, I guess, although I personally would have preferred adopting the common convention of ending lines with backslash if we need this capability. sneaking it in through encoded-character is probably easier, though. -- Kjetil T. Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l341USXK012064 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 3 Apr 2007 18:30:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l341UStD012063; Tue, 3 Apr 2007 18:30:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from pat.uio.no (pat.uio.no [129.240.10.15]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l341U53I012044 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Tue, 3 Apr 2007 18:30:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kjetilho@ifi.uio.no) Received: from mail-mx9.uio.no ([129.240.10.39]) by pat.uio.no with esmtp (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no>) id 1HYuJx-0000R6-I3; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 03:29:57 +0200 Received: from smtp.uio.no ([129.240.10.9] helo=mail-mx9.uio.no) by mail-mx9.uio.no with esmtp (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no>) id 1HYuJu-0004wc-JH; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 03:29:54 +0200 Received: from havhest.ifi.uio.no ([129.240.68.231]) by mail-mx9.uio.no with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no>) id 1HYuJu-0004vk-FX; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 03:29:54 +0200 Subject: Re: comments on draft-freed-sieve-notary From: Kjetil Torgrim Homme <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no> To: Philip Guenther <guenther+mtafilters@sendmail.com> Cc: ned.freed@mrochek.com, ietf-mta-filters@imc.org In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.64.0704021338030.18303@vanye.mho.net> References: <Pine.BSO.4.64.0704021338030.18303@vanye.mho.net> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 03:29:42 +0200 Message-Id: <1175650185.26520.36.camel@havhest.ifi.uio.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UiO-SPF-Received: X-UiO-Resend: resent X-UiO-SPF-Received: X-UiO-Spam-info: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-4.8, required=12.0, autolearn=disabled, AWL=0.172,UIO_MAIL_IS_INTERNAL=-5) X-UiO-Scanned: 4A538DF52114CA09243E7E8D04C4039EFEBC4ABF X-UiO-SPAM-Test: remote_host: 129.240.10.9 spam_score: -47 maxlevel 200 minaction 2 bait 0 mail/h: 59 total 890968 max/h 7466 blacklist 0 greylist 0 ratelimit 0 Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> On Mon, 2007-04-02 at 14:58 -0600, Philip Guenther wrote: > I found the extension name to be relatively obscure, having completely > forgotten that the DSN work came from the notary WG. "smtp-dsn" would > have been more obvious to me, +1 > It should be stated that any ADDRESS-PART argument is ignored when > matching against the 'notify' or 'ret' envelope parts. I suggest that it > _not_ be ignored for 'envid' due to RFC 3885's tightening of the envid > syntax when message tracking is used. > > (Hurm. RFC 3885's seems at least mildly broken, as it apparently implies > that an "@" is not the same as its xtext encoded version.) why do you think that is (mildly) broken? okay, it says "the syntax of ENVID from RFC 3461 is extended [...]" when it's really *restricting* it. > Speaking of RFC 3885, would it be reasonable to have this "notary" > extension also define a "mtrk" envelope-part given how MTRK is tied to the > notary parameters? Or should that be a different capability? it should be a different capability, MTRK is non-trivial to deploy in clustered mail systems, DSN is much simpler. could be in the same document, though. > mtrk Match the message tracking, or MTRK, value given in the > SMTP MAIL FROM command. The syntax and semantics of the MTRK > parameter are defined in RFC 3885 [RFC3885] section 3.1. > > (It may make sense to do MTRK in a separate extension simply because of > its lower maturity level and deployment compared to DSN.) yes. > This extension provides a means to test the notary values on incoming > messages, but not set them on messages sent via 'redirect'. I guess you mean the NOTIFY parameter here, I don't think we want to allow users to play with any of the others. that could probably be useful (in particular NOTIFY=NEVER). I don't think it needs to be in a separate capability. another comment on the draft: orcpt Match the original recipient, or ORCPT, value in decoded form associated with the TO address used in the SMTP RCPT command that resulted in this message getting delivered to this user. The syntax and semantics of the ORCPT parameter are defined in RFC 3461 [RFC3461] section 4.2. is the addr-type ("rfc822;") part of the value supposed to be stripped off? perhaps we should extend ADDRESS-PART to make this explicit? or we could say that :localpart and :domain strips off addr-type, but when neither is specified, the complete value is used. (also a tiny typo, "case-insensitivie", and I think it should say "SMTP RCPT TO command", not "SMTP RCPT command") -- Kjetil T. Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l33DmSSW064091 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 3 Apr 2007 06:48:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l33DmSrH064090; Tue, 3 Apr 2007 06:48:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.rockliffe.com (mail.rockliffe.com [147.208.128.10]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l33Dm83M064075 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Tue, 3 Apr 2007 06:48:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Nigel.Swinson@rockliffe.com) X-Spam-Score-scoring_explanation: X-Spam-Score-spf_status: X-Spam-Score-Spamcatcher1: 6c3a050b8d523931eff24712910dd145 X-Spam-Score-Summary: 2,0,0,02ef14c6bc4b15f8,ef3b67f8c0e6e6e1,nigel.swinson@rockliffe.com,,RULES_HIT:355:379:539:540:541:542:543:567:599:601:988:989:1155:1156:1261:1277:1311:1313:1314:1345:1437:1513:1515:1516:1518:1521:1534:1539:1587:1593:1594:1711:1714:1730:1747:1766:1792:1801:2073:2075:2078:2393:2559:2562:2828:3027:3351:3742:3865:3867:3869:3870:3871:3873:3874:4605:5007,0,RBL:none,CacheIP:none,Bayesian:0.5,0.5,0.5,Netcheck:none,DomainCache:0,MSF:not bulk,SPF:,MSBL:none,DNSBL:none X-Spam-Score-rbl_summary: none X-Spam-Score-Phishing_status: no X-Spam-Score-Countries: X-Spam-Score-Charsets: iso-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: 1 Received: from nigelhome (unverified [10.42.40.208]) by mail.rockliffe.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 7.0.6) with ESMTP id <B0000147036@mail.rockliffe.com>; Tue, 3 Apr 2007 06:48:06 -0700 Message-ID: <014901c775f6$dc4bd3b0$0202fea9@nigelhome> From: "Nigel Swinson" <Nigel.Swinson@rockliffe.com> To: "Alexey Melnikov" <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> Cc: <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org> References: <4AD3083C5C3E2F578673BE0E@dhcp-blr03-250-181.india.sun.com> <460BF41B.9050909@isode.com> <32EFC06396E279E76BAC5F17@dhcp-blr03-250-181.india.sun.com> <460D7CE0.3010209@isode.com> Subject: Re: AD review of draft-ietf-sieve-3028bis-12 Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 14:49:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1807 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1896 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by balder-227.proper.com id l33DmS3M064085 Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> > OLD: > Note that for a message that is exactly 4,000 octets, the message is > neither ":over" 4000 octets or ":under" 4000 octets. > ^^ > > NEW: > Note that for a message that is exactly 4,000 octets, the message is > neither ":over" 4000 octets nor ":under" 4000 octets. > ^^^ If you are going to be in here, you might as well say: Note that for a message that is exactly 4,000 octets, the message is - neither ":over" 4000 octets or ":under" 4000 octets. + neither ":over" nor ":under" 4000 octets. Nigel Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l335atGx026256 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 2 Apr 2007 22:36:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l335atQf026255; Mon, 2 Apr 2007 22:36:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from foon.sendmail.com (smtp-out.sendmail.com [209.246.26.45]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l335aYpH026227 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Mon, 2 Apr 2007 22:36:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from guenther+mtafilters@sendmail.com) Received: from [10.201.0.14] (adsl-64-58-1-252.mho.net [64.58.1.252] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by foon.sendmail.com (Switch-3.2.5/Switch-3.2.0) with ESMTP id l336dif7010291 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 2 Apr 2007 23:39:46 -0700 X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v0.5.1 foon.sendmail.com l336dif7010291 DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/simple; d=sendmail.com; s=tls.dkim; t=1175582388; bh=n1BGWgw5JKmfunqVTclORLsMTIE=; h=X-DomainKeys: DomainKey-Signature:Date:From:X-X-Sender:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To: Message-ID:References:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=k0Q55mdS6nwA3cgB +1jindejY7MVPsRTUok35gP0ILG24LjgwKQCNrDQDPSpaUGxfU1j15Qomuf+zqNb/p6 f+zQUVhnngMxbNXAHiZyUn1aFanVMG98WUMI6TvzIsCdu1PGjmkFjFM69lIZ2qm8KeA lYtvulEv5p1w9fY+Hrfjo= X-DomainKeys: Sendmail DomainKeys Filter v0.4.1 foon.sendmail.com l336dif7010291 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=tls; d=sendmail.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=date:from:x-x-sender:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id: references:mime-version:content-type; b=Wnc/l8X92JL8d0m6wqhpo84+60BeG9nZZcrFViNhWWmWBpAHx+awcakM6CaQ5tC0w 825EJ+bChg2+rpwKx6lJq5w7MnGEI+Y4WLJRKmsBqtjVirEyhByv4FM8s4fRYAZyuhu QPI4by8du7msqqhD8Xc4BA0NUi6b5i6+WKgkn8k= Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 23:36:26 -0600 From: Philip Guenther <guenther+mtafilters@sendmail.com> X-X-Sender: guenther@vanye.mho.net To: Ned Freed <ned.freed@mrochek.com> cc: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com>, ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Re: Support for encoded-character In-Reply-To: <01MEY6R7GWIU000053@mauve.mrochek.com> Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.64.0704022315330.3678@vanye.mho.net> References: <1174444371.31407.125.camel@localhost> <4606EB9D.30209@isode.com> <01MEX09900ZW000053@mauve.mrochek.com> <Pine.BSO.4.64.0704021251520.18303@vanye.mho.net> <01MEY6R7GWIU000053@mauve.mrochek.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> On Mon, 2 Apr 2007, Ned Freed wrote: ... > Sorry, missed that was one of the core rules. But that makes me wonder > if LWSP wouldn't be more appropriate... That's an interesting idea, as it would let you 'wrap' a string in the script without including the CRLF in the string's value. Hmm. > We also have a card-before-the-horse problem, in that we don't refer to > the use of ABNF for defining our grammars until section 8.1 but the ABNF > for encoded-character is in 2.4.2.4. (Well, to be fair, we do mention > ABNF in the conventions section, but only to compare it to how Usage: > statements are constructed.) The customary way to do this is to put the > reference to ABNF in the conventions section. I can understand not > bothering when ABNF was only used in one place, but that's no longer > true. True. There's also no real explanation of the "Syntax:" lines that 'define' MATCH-TYPE, COMPARATOR, and ADDRESS-PART, although real ABNF for those is included in section 8.2. <sigh> Perhaps this should be dealt with by (1) including a specific statement in section 1.1 that ABNF is used for other syntax specifications in the body of the text, and (2) replacing those "Syntax:" lines with their actual ABNF versions. (This is turning into a long RFC editors note. It's feeling like I should pull together the changes and submit a new rev...) > Finally, I wonder if we should be explicit about how encoded-character > constructs interact with text: blocks. My reading is that they should work. > Does everyone else agree? If it's a string, then encoded-character affects its interpretation. text: blocks are strings. MPP The interpretation of text: blocks is affected by encoded-character In addition, 2.4.2.4 specifically notes that encoded-character processing happens after dot-unstuffing, which only applies to text: blocks. Philip Guenther Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l32LOrHH098626 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 2 Apr 2007 14:24:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l32LOrKt098625; Mon, 2 Apr 2007 14:24:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mauve.mrochek.com (dsl-66-59-230-40.static.linkline.com [66.59.230.40]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l32LOWKU098449 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Mon, 2 Apr 2007 14:24:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ned.freed@mrochek.com) Received: from dkim-sign.mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01MEY6R9GHDC002IPR@mauve.mrochek.com> for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Mon, 2 Apr 2007 14:24:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01MES4WEV9CG000053@mauve.mrochek.com>; Mon, 02 Apr 2007 14:24:19 -0700 (PDT) Cc: Ned Freed <ned.freed@mrochek.com>, Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com>, ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Message-id: <01MEY6R7GWIU000053@mauve.mrochek.com> Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 13:52:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Ned Freed <ned.freed@mrochek.com> Subject: Re: Support for encoded-character In-reply-to: "Your message dated Mon, 02 Apr 2007 12:56:35 -0600" <Pine.BSO.4.64.0704021251520.18303@vanye.mho.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed References: <1174444371.31407.125.camel@localhost> <4606EB9D.30209@isode.com> <01MEX09900ZW000053@mauve.mrochek.com> <Pine.BSO.4.64.0704021251520.18303@vanye.mho.net> To: Philip Guenther <guenther+mtafilters@sendmail.com> DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nowsp; d=mrochek.com; s=mauve; t=1175549063; h=Date: From:Subject:MIME-version:Content-type; b=basYs/v7hF0jbkTPd9TD1p4qt FUxFMMgoPFSB8YmK0L7Nb03F6Oz0qtlXJlQBBpRTGIkeRuGCRJikEWeLzYW7w== Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> > On Sun, 1 Apr 2007, Ned Freed wrote: > ... > > Another issue I recently noticed about encoded-character refers to the WSP > > production but does not define it. I don't see it defined or referenced > > anywhere else in the specification either. Perhaps this should be changed to > > white-space, which is defined? > No, not unless you really think we want this: > "${unicode:110 /* a comment with a close brace } */ 69}" > to be an encoding of "Hi". > WSP is defined in the ABNF "Core rules" which are assumed as the base of > all the ABNF snippets in 3028bis (c.f., DIGIT, CRLF, etc). Sorry, missed that was one of the core rules. But that makes me wonder if LWSP wouldn't be more appropriate... We also have a card-before-the-horse problem, in that we don't refer to the use of ABNF for defining our grammars until section 8.1 but the ABNF for encoded-character is in 2.4.2.4. (Well, to be fair, we do mention ABNF in the conventions section, but only to compare it to how Usage: statements are constructed.) The customary way to do this is to put the reference to ABNF in the conventions section. I can understand not bothering when ABNF was only used in one place, but that's no longer true. Finally, I wonder if we should be explicit about how encoded-character constructs interact with text: blocks. My reading is that they should work. Does everyone else agree? Ned Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l32KwgJP097169 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 2 Apr 2007 13:58:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l32KwggY097168; Mon, 2 Apr 2007 13:58:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from foon.sendmail.com (smtp-out.sendmail.com [209.246.26.45]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l32KwfmE097162 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Mon, 2 Apr 2007 13:58:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from guenther+mtafilters@sendmail.com) Received: from [10.201.0.14] (adsl-64-58-1-252.mho.net [64.58.1.252] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by foon.sendmail.com (Switch-3.2.5/Switch-3.2.0) with ESMTP id l32M1pHB022960 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 2 Apr 2007 15:01:54 -0700 X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v0.5.1 foon.sendmail.com l32M1pHB022960 DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/simple; d=sendmail.com; s=tls.dkim; t=1175551316; bh=L2fmBZfDw0vV2afgVYelT2acTh0=; h=X-DomainKeys: DomainKey-Signature:Date:From:X-X-Sender:To:cc:Subject:Message-ID: MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=GVPAfeG8Of4yvVi2toQjQDwkk7GBd61QguUhCA Kdmj6rtO1DKw4ak7g488bAzwjBEg6SCgGDdW+56QUZe4MMjsk6yWJ1xTIgEeL1wFDud rO1mlYWzGLTXivbhsZdveJxxa1Hg1if+Ub3Ceidj0JYz+s5IzuIQ1xQKhKSFVRTmVc= X-DomainKeys: Sendmail DomainKeys Filter v0.4.1 foon.sendmail.com l32M1pHB022960 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=tls; d=sendmail.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=date:from:x-x-sender:to:cc:subject:message-id: mime-version:content-type; b=DeKsIDhsk0+TQvrBOAiHgqoJ5Fo3i5Y1KOiiJT3z2OIyM4qDK1Aq7i76vxV0MgnbR PdifAEK/zT7yl/Zb6RhqWWjppNmrFwsZS82hfxhzcPLkQqnQWnTVeLX+MMHqmYDzmUw GM9+lM81Z2yosw8Ql764Lw8XNU5bIHJUVvpo5i8= Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 14:58:35 -0600 From: Philip Guenther <guenther+mtafilters@sendmail.com> X-X-Sender: guenther@vanye.mho.net To: ned.freed@mrochek.com cc: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: comments on draft-freed-sieve-notary Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.64.0704021338030.18303@vanye.mho.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> I found the extension name to be relatively obscure, having completely forgotten that the DSN work came from the notary WG. "smtp-dsn" would have been more obvious to me, but perhaps that implies a restriction to SMTP that doesn't exist. (Is there a reasonable X.400 mapping for these envelope values?) It should be stated that any ADDRESS-PART argument is ignored when matching against the 'notify' or 'ret' envelope parts. I suggest that it _not_ be ignored for 'envid' due to RFC 3885's tightening of the envid syntax when message tracking is used. (Hurm. RFC 3885's seems at least mildly broken, as it apparently implies that an "@" is not the same as its xtext encoded version.) Speaking of RFC 3885, would it be reasonable to have this "notary" extension also define a "mtrk" envelope-part given how MTRK is tied to the notary parameters? Or should that be a different capability? mtrk Match the message tracking, or MTRK, value given in the SMTP MAIL FROM command. The syntax and semantics of the MTRK parameter are defined in RFC 3885 [RFC3885] section 3.1. (It may make sense to do MTRK in a separate extension simply because of its lower maturity level and deployment compared to DSN.) An example of how to test whether 'notify' contained a specific set of values would help clarify the behavior. Perhaps something like: # Check whether only FAILURE notifications were requested if allof ( envelope "notify" "FAILURE", envelope :comparator "i;ascii-numeric" :count "eq" "notify" "1" ) { # do whatever } This extension provides a means to test the notary values on incoming messages, but not set them on messages sent via 'redirect'. Has anyone played with extensions for setting SMTP parameters on outgoing messages in sieve? Philip Guenther Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l32Iv311091588 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 2 Apr 2007 11:57:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l32Iv3pa091587; Mon, 2 Apr 2007 11:57:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from foon.sendmail.com (smtp-out.sendmail.com [209.246.26.45]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l32IugB5091574 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Mon, 2 Apr 2007 11:57:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from guenther+mtafilters@sendmail.com) Received: from [10.201.0.14] (adsl-64-58-1-252.mho.net [64.58.1.252] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by foon.sendmail.com (Switch-3.2.5/Switch-3.2.0) with ESMTP id l32JxqER009944 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 2 Apr 2007 12:59:54 -0700 X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v0.5.1 foon.sendmail.com l32JxqER009944 DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/simple; d=sendmail.com; s=tls.dkim; t=1175543997; bh=qp87CaZn4L7E9+ix1X+8xuWrCkI=; h=X-DomainKeys: DomainKey-Signature:Date:From:X-X-Sender:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To: Message-ID:References:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=s9tGDAlrvJ+4qzq5 L7AswrHmleFg13Y+ftZOzNdSn1sSylCSTKtQhHVpQ8NyOTzNojXs6Df57dhlZ1C2MOg 1B6eijBm6PON5LA6wcAijeTkNo9psZ6nXVjm1C0Mv90eUfE9TihUPfO1C+5/NEBmag/ Ula4ohcgBkg1uZ15cX3t0= X-DomainKeys: Sendmail DomainKeys Filter v0.4.1 foon.sendmail.com l32JxqER009944 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=tls; d=sendmail.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=date:from:x-x-sender:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id: references:mime-version:content-type; b=NpBf+F4nvB715dVUtDHa+O6kmsGXIGcksUN08OFsvmRiKtl6uw9WvyJW4WuY50xHT ZsveITw1xr629Z69gVE1u1q575D4TFYzjfqYvjnIqkgtZrF8pD7hkydokmfgoBGGzSn ukKbjy3w/0IDf++FtqAuz0v4R1WcLpNrx/OSITo= Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 12:56:35 -0600 From: Philip Guenther <guenther+mtafilters@sendmail.com> X-X-Sender: guenther@vanye.mho.net To: Ned Freed <ned.freed@mrochek.com> cc: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com>, ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Re: Support for encoded-character In-Reply-To: <01MEX09900ZW000053@mauve.mrochek.com> Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.64.0704021251520.18303@vanye.mho.net> References: <1174444371.31407.125.camel@localhost> <4606EB9D.30209@isode.com> <01MEX09900ZW000053@mauve.mrochek.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> On Sun, 1 Apr 2007, Ned Freed wrote: ... > Another issue I recently noticed about encoded-character refers to the WSP > production but does not define it. I don't see it defined or referenced > anywhere else in the specification either. Perhaps this should be changed to > white-space, which is defined? No, not unless you really think we want this: "${unicode:110 /* a comment with a close brace } */ 69}" to be an encoding of "Hi". WSP is defined in the ABNF "Core rules" which are assumed as the base of all the ABNF snippets in 3028bis (c.f., DIGIT, CRLF, etc). Philip Guenther Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3217na0034654 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 1 Apr 2007 18:07:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l3217nbL034653; Sun, 1 Apr 2007 18:07:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mauve.mrochek.com (dsl-66-59-230-40.static.linkline.com [66.59.230.40]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l3217SVO034641 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Sun, 1 Apr 2007 18:07:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ned.freed@mrochek.com) Received: from dkim-sign.mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01MEX09B0HZK001UJA@mauve.mrochek.com> for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Sun, 1 Apr 2007 18:07:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01MES4WEV9CG000053@mauve.mrochek.com>; Sun, 01 Apr 2007 18:07:15 -0700 (PDT) Cc: Aaron Stone <aaron@serendipity.cx>, ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Message-id: <01MEX09900ZW000053@mauve.mrochek.com> Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2007 18:05:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Ned Freed <ned.freed@mrochek.com> Subject: Re: Support for encoded-character In-reply-to: "Your message dated Sun, 25 Mar 2007 22:37:33 +0100" <4606EB9D.30209@isode.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed References: <1174444371.31407.125.camel@localhost> <4606EB9D.30209@isode.com> To: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nowsp; d=mrochek.com; s=mauve; t=1175476038; h=Date: From:Subject:MIME-version:Content-type; b=Iw90wi280JNRuj7wF/L+Vhyzb kHILESa1w1IeOSlGOALryLMvyiG11VQaDNyJb/AtN/hZdUgErQjUB6xNMIRig== Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> > Aaron Stone wrote: > >After the Sieve interop yesterday evening sort of crumbled over > >encoded-char, I implemented the hex side of things for libSieve. > > > >I also noticed that in 2038bis-12, 2.4.2.4, the sentence: > > > > In the following script, message A is discarded, since the specified > > test string is equivalent to "$$$". > > > >...should refer to 'message B'. > > > > > Indeed. I've sent Lisa/Chris a note saying that this needs to be fixed > before publication. Another issue I recently noticed about encoded-character refers to the WSP production but does not define it. I don't see it defined or referenced anywhere else in the specification either. Perhaps this should be changed to white-space, which is defined? Ned Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l31EED83004789 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 1 Apr 2007 07:14:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l31EEDsl004788; Sun, 1 Apr 2007 07:14:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l31EDqm4004776 for <ietf-mta-filters@imc.org>; Sun, 1 Apr 2007 07:14:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alexey.melnikov@isode.com) Received: from [172.16.1.99] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id <Rg--HgB5I5da@rufus.isode.com>; Sun, 1 Apr 2007 15:13:51 +0100 Message-ID: <460FBDCB.4050204@isode.com> Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2007 15:12:27 +0100 From: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Aaron Stone <aaron@serendipity.cx> CC: Chris Newman <Chris.Newman@Sun.COM>, ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Re: AD review of draft-ietf-sieve-3028bis-12 References: <4AD3083C5C3E2F578673BE0E@dhcp-blr03-250-181.india.sun.com> <460BF41B.9050909@isode.com> <32EFC06396E279E76BAC5F17@dhcp-blr03-250-181.india.sun.com>, <32EFC06396E279E76BAC5F17@dhcp-blr03-250-181.india.sun.com> <twig.1175293204.40341@serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us> In-Reply-To: <twig.1175293204.40341@serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-mta-filters/mail-archive/> List-ID: <ietf-mta-filters.imc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-mta-filters-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> Aaron Stone wrote: >Everything looks good. A few more wordsmithing comments below. > >On Fri, Mar 30, 2007, Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> said: > > >> Chris Newman wrote: >> >> >>>Alexey Melnikov wrote on 3/29/07 18:15 +0100: >>> >>> >>>>After discussing this with Cyrus: chairs would like to publish -12 + >>>>RFC-editor's notes. >>>> >>>> >>>That's fine. Send me RFC-editor notes I can paste into the ballot and >>>I'll push the draft forward. >>> >>> >>Ok, here is the list of changes I would like to propose (Can please >>someone else sanity check this!). >> >> >[snip] > > >>In section 2.7.1, 1st paragraph, replace the 2nd sentence: >> >>OLD: >> Match type arguments are supplied to those commands which allow them >>to specify >> what kind of match is to be performed. >>NEW: >> Match type arguments control what kind of match is to be performed by >>commands. >> >> >The whole thing is pretty awkward. Here's the whole paragraph in -12: > > There are three match types describing the matching used in this > specification: ":is", ":contains", and ":matches". Match type > arguments are supplied to those commands which allow them to specify > what kind of match is to be performed. > > These are used as optional arguments to tests that perform string > comparison. > >Suggest: > > Commands which perform string comparisons may have an optional match > type argument. The three match types in this specification are ":is", > ":contains", and ":matches". > > I like that. >I don't think we need to define the word argument "argument". We only need >to explain what "match type arguments" are. > > >A bit later in the section, I suggest dropping the highlighted clause: > >2.7.3. Comparators > > > In order to allow for language-independent, case-independent matches, > the match type may be coupled with a comparator name. The Internet > Application Protocol Collation Registry [COLLATION] provides the > framework for describing and naming comparators as used by this > specification. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >The purpose of the registry is not to document what Sieve does. Rather, >Sieve is just using the registry. > > Good point. >[snip] > > >>Add to the end: >> >>10. Added encoded-character capability and deprecated (but did not remove) >> use of arbitrary binary octets in Sieve scripts. >>11. Updated IANA registration template, and permit capability prefix >> registrations. Prefix registrations outside "vnd." require IESG >>approval. >>12. Added .sieve as a valid extension for sieve scripts. >> >> >Suggest: > > 11. Updated IANA registration template, and added IANA considerations > to permit capability prefix registrations. > >We don't need to repeat the "vnd." requirement, we just have to point the >reader to that section of the document. > > Yes, this is better.
- Re: Conflict of draft-martin-managesieve-07.txt v… Alexey Melnikov
- Re: Conflict of draft-martin-managesieve-07.txt v… Aaron Stone
- IANA registry for Sieve NOTIFY <notification-capa… Alexey Melnikov
- Sieve NOTIFY and ManageSieve Alexey Melnikov