[Simple] RE: Comments on draft-ala-kurikka-simple-pidfconn-00
"Jussi Ala-Kurikka" <jussi.ala-kurikka@oulu.fi> Fri, 18 November 2005 09:00 UTC
Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ed278-0007G8-MO; Fri, 18 Nov 2005 04:00:58 -0500
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ed277-0007G3-Sx for simple@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 18 Nov 2005 04:00:57 -0500
Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA02354 for <simple@ietf.org>; Fri, 18 Nov 2005 04:00:21 -0500 (EST)
Received: from gw15.rotuaari.net ([212.50.147.115] helo=gw15.virtues.local) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ed2Ou-0007fJ-7n for simple@ietf.org; Fri, 18 Nov 2005 04:19:22 -0500
Received: from AllIPIBM1 (unknown [212.50.147.101]) by gw15.virtues.local (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2873E4640; Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:00:32 +0200 (EET)
From: Jussi Ala-Kurikka <jussi.ala-kurikka@oulu.fi>
To: Haris.Zisimopoulos@vodafone.com, simple@ietf.org
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:00:32 +0200
Organization: MediaTeam/University of Oulu
Message-ID: <000901c5ec1e$87df4ea0$3529140a@AllIPIBM1>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670
Thread-Index: AcXpv+KqkWOWcfQaS2CgVg1yovInMACRVLOgAAV7uRA=
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 1676547e4f33b5e63227e9c02bd359e3
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Cc:
Subject: [Simple] RE: Comments on draft-ala-kurikka-simple-pidfconn-00
X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
Precedence: list
List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions <simple.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple>, <mailto:simple-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/simple>
List-Post: <mailto:simple@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:simple-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple>, <mailto:simple-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Sender: simple-bounces@ietf.org
Errors-To: simple-bounces@ietf.org
Hello, Comments inline. > -----Original Message----- > From: Zisimopoulos, Haris, VF-Group > [mailto:Haris.Zisimopoulos@vodafone.com] > Sent: 15. marraskuuta 2005 10:38 > To: jussi.ala-kurikka@ee.oulu.fi; simple@ietf.org > Subject: Comments on draft-ala-kurikka-simple-pidfconn-00 > > Hello, > > First I think that the concept of connectivity as part of the Presence > information should be further exploited and this proposal provides a > good start. > > I have some comments though for this I-D: > > - First of all I think it is unclear what is defined as connectivity. > For example it can be (wireless) network attachement, allocation if IP > adress, registration in the SIP domain with that contact? It needs to > be clarified. The draft was not explicit on this, I agree. A connectivity is the physical layer last-hop technology with which an end-user's device is connected to a network (e.g. 802.3u, 802.11b, GPRS). In order for the presentity to convey its connectivity features, it should naturally itself know them first. Without measurements it is typically only possible to know the theoretical features of a connectivity (if even those). However, as Henning Schulzrinne pointed out in the SIMPLE meeting, the connectivity is not always the most constraining part of the end-to-end connection. E.g. in airplanes it might be the airplane<->Internet connection that is the most constraining one. Of course, the more accurate the conveyed data, the better the watchers are able to determine which service to use, if any. > - Determining the QoS characteristics (eg throughput, delay > etc) just from the type of the wireless technology is very naïve. Even > wireless networks that perform over-the-air resource reservation keep > these resources only if there is traffic flowing. Also the allocation > of resources largely depends on the overall congestion in the network > and can vary over time. Therefore here it would be wiser I think just > to indicate the network attachment to a particular network type (eg > UMTS,GPRS etc) which *generally* gives some static QoS characteristics > indication. For example indicating to the watcher that I am attached > in WLAN generally speaking gives the indication that I have better QoS > than GPRS (apart from when I am in IETF :-)). I am very sceptical that > you can go beyond that unless you do some real-time measurements in > the terminal which is something not advisable. The reason why we wanted to model the features of a connectivity instead of conveying the network type directly is that this way we do not need to enumerate the values of the connectivity element for all the possible connectivities. Simply saying "this element contains a name of the used connectivity" will not probably do, as it would likely produce interoperability issues (e.g. a presentity could state either WLAN or 802.11b). We would need to do the enumeration either in the draft or to specify a reference. I could not find any such reference within the IETF. Of course, the list of connectivities should also be kept up-to-date, adding all future connectivities. It would perhaps be easier for the presentity to convey just the network type. He would not need to know the theoretical "best-case" features of the used connectivity but just the type, which could maybe be extracted from the device name provided by hardware. However, for expressing the network type to be of any value, the watcher would need to be able to somehow map the network type to its typical features. Therefore, the watcher would basically need to know the mapping between names and features of the connectivities of the presentities they are watching. In an implementation based on the current draft, this mapping would not be needed. Users/software would just need to know for example the throughput requirements of the sessions they would like to initiate. Presentities could also convey measured data, e.g. maximum throughput, if they had that information. > - The idea of charging indication in an on/off manner is interesting > but I think it becomes very complicated if you attempt to go beyond > that. So the sentence under 2.3.2.1 that "... followed by any number > of elements from different namespaces for an extended specification of > the billing." is very difficult to be implemented in a real world. That might be true. However, we did not want to rule that out either. In fact, as commented during the discussion after the SIMPLE meeting, even saying that charge is false or true could be difficult because sometimes there are also flat fees with a limited amount of megabytes per month. The megabytes exceeding that amount do in fact affect the presentity's billing. In that case, the value of <basic> would need to be updated when crossing that amount. -Jussi _______________________________________________ Simple mailing list Simple@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple
- [Simple] Comments on draft-ala-kurikka-simple-pid… Zisimopoulos, Haris, VF-Group
- [Simple] RE: Comments on draft-ala-kurikka-simple… Jussi Ala-Kurikka