Re: Re: [Sipping] seeking comments on draft-haluska-sipping-directory-assistance-01.txt
"Haluska, John J" <jhaluska@telcordia.com> Wed, 10 January 2007 18:10 UTC
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Subject: Re: Re: [Sipping] seeking comments on draft-haluska-sipping-directory-assistance-01.txt
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 13:10:22 -0500
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Thread-Topic: Re: Re: [Sipping] seeking comments on draft-haluska-sipping-directory-assistance-01.txt
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From: "Haluska, John J" <jhaluska@telcordia.com>
To: sipping@ietf.org
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Dale Thank you for taking the time to comment on this draft. >I'm mystified by what this draft is trying to accomplish. If a SIP >user wishes to contact an Information Service, he can just issue an >INVITE to the service's URI. This draft seems to assume that all >information services are integrated into the fabric of the transport >network, which is a poor architectural decision with adverse economic >consequences. Currently, services like Directory Assistance (DA) and Operator Services often use traditional interfaces that are challenging to evolve. What we are ultimately trying to do is specify how these existing services and future advanced DA services could be implemented in a standardized way using SIP interfaces. This would simplify the integration efforts for the vendors and service providers. Also, it would simplify the connectivity to such services via SIP, rather than requiring VSPs to implement customized solutions or hand off via a PSTN interface. Going forward, it would allow DA providers to deploy more advanced services by taking advantage of SIP, rather than simply replicating what is currently possible on the PSTN. I am referring to "DA" here, but there are other services to which this all applies. We would hope that the end results of this would result in positive economic consequences. >At the very least, you can correct the first sentence of the abstract: > > Information Services are services whereby information is provided by > the network in response to user requests > >By definition, a network doesn't *provide* information, it >*transports* it. Network endpoints provide information. Definitely in the next revision, we plan to reduce the scope, concentrating on solutions to the technical problems. The abstract would be updated, and your comments are well taken. The draft definitely does not mean to imply that the services are woven into the fabric of the transport network, if it comes across that way then we need to change it. Nor should it come across as implying that layer 3 entities or the network itself are providing these services. So the wording will definitely change. >OK, I'm being cranky here. But if all this apparatus is necessary, >there must be some requirements that I don't see stated clearly. Not at all, we need these kinds of comments to make sure things are clear. Again, in the next revision of the draft, we'll make sure these requirements are very clear. The draft covers several areas, but a good amount of text is devoted to handling different network scenarios, which are driven by different business relationships. It probably does seem like a lot of complexity, so I'll give some explanations here. The draft is inclusive of several business models. It includes the Service URN, so that a UA could make use of that mechanism to resolve the provider's URI to make the call directly as you indicate, if the infrastructure to support that is in place. Also, if a user's provider has the ability to provide such services natively, then little else is needed to get the caller to the service. So the simple case is included. Services like DA require specialized infrastructure as well as personnel, so many voice providers farm this out to third parties. The draft includes the model where the subscriber's provider has a business agreement with a separate DA provider. This is commonplace today both in the PSTN and also with VOIP providers. This is what we are calling the "direct" third party provider in the draft. An example would be provider A has a relationship with DA provider C to handle DA queries for its customers. The draft is also inclusive of the model where the subscriber's provider for whatever reason does not have any agreement with a DA provider. But it does have an agreement with another provider, which in turn has such agreements. This facilitates among other things the "little guy" being able to offer such services to his customers without having to have an arrangement directly with a DA provider. This is what we are calling the "indirect" third party provider. An example would be where provider A has an agreement with provider B for any services it cannot provide natively, including DA. Provider B might provide some services natively, and might farm others out. For instance it might farm out DA to provider C. Services like DA are usually branded - the identity of the caller's provider impacts how the call is processed, based on the agreement between the caller's provider and the DA provider. One example is that providers want the DA provider to play a custom greeting when providing service to their customers. So, a subscriber of provider A makes a 411 call for DA, and provider A hands the call off to DA provider C with whom it has such arrangements. Provider A wants the customer to be greeted with some custom greeting like "thank you for using provider A". Also, provider A may have contracted for other services such as call completion, where once the requested listing is provided, the DA provider offers to complete the call to that party, so the user need not remember the number, hang up, and then dial the number. Another example might be that DA providers could have different default languages for each provider with whom they have agreements (this would not rule out a per subscriber language preference). In the indirect model, we allow for the processing to take account of both the caller's provider as well as the provider with the direct relationship to the DA provider. The draft is not trying to weave these complicated relationships into the fabric - it just needs be inclusive of them as well as the simple case. It sounds like a lot of complexity, but in the end we are just trying to specify ways to use existing SIP mechanisms to support them. >From my original email, this currently comes down to specifying the use of P-Asserted-Identity and Via headers, with a few constraints. We need to make sure this all comes through clearly in the draft. I'm hoping that the reduction in scope in the next revision will help to make this come through more clearly. I would also appreciate any technical comments on the questions in my previous post: ======================================================================== ====== I am seeking comments on draft-haluska-sipping-directory-assistance-01.txt. Specifically, 1. Assuming that the providers involved agree, does it seem reasonable to specify the use of the domain-name format of P-Asserted-Identity, in order to determine the identity of the home provider? This seems to make sense, especially given the fact that SBCs can break SIP Identity, as pointed out in the recent identity coexistence draft. 2. Does it seem reasonable to maintain a list of values for "via" headers expected from providers from which the Operator and Information Services Provider (OISP) would expect to receive calls, to identify the provider who is sending the call to the OISP? These would be providers with whom the OISP has a pre existing relationship. 3. For identifying the caller's terminal capabilities and characteristics, we plan to specify the use of RFC 3840 (indicating UA capabilities in SIP) when it is supported - it is not in the current revision of the draft. Where it is not supported, the session either needs to do without this information, or some lookup (e.g. HSS in am IMS environment) could be done. 4. We plan to reduce the scope - it will not normatively define an architecture (it will still describe one for the purposes of discussion) and concentrate more on identifying existing SIP mechanisms for conveying the required information, and will include additional call flows. Any comments are greatly appreciated.
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- [Sipping] seeking comments on draft-haluska-sippi… Haluska, John J
- Re: [Sipping] seeking comments on draft-haluska-s… Dale.Worley
- Re: Re: [Sipping] seeking comments on draft-halus… Haluska, John J
- Re: [Sipping] seeking comments on draft-haluska-s… Dale.Worley