Re: [Sipping] MESSAGE Exploders draft

Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@cisco.com> Fri, 02 April 2004 23:19 UTC

Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA12655 for <sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 18:19:51 -0500 (EST)
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B9Xvi-0002hp-Sr for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 18:19:11 -0500
Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i32NIK3I009942 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 18:18:20 -0500
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B9XvY-0002Xx-J6 for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 18:18:20 -0500
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA12597 for <sipping-web-archive@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 18:18:11 -0500 (EST)
Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B9XvQ-0000FJ-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 18:18:12 -0500
Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1B9XuT-00007X-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 18:17:14 -0500
Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B9Xts-0007nC-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 18:16:36 -0500
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B9XnC-0007wd-Tn; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 18:09:42 -0500
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B9Xlq-0007Sc-HC for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 18:08:18 -0500
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA11605 for <sipping@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 18:08:13 -0500 (EST)
Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B9Xln-0006iB-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 18:08:15 -0500
Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1B9Xkt-0006ba-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 18:07:20 -0500
Received: from sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.72] helo=sj-iport-3.cisco.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B9XkV-0006UP-00; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 18:06:55 -0500
Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com (171.71.177.254) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 02 Apr 2004 15:14:28 +0000
Received: from flask.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@flask.cisco.com [161.44.122.62]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i32N6MKj006377; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 15:06:22 -0800 (PST)
Received: from cisco.com ([161.44.79.74]) by flask.cisco.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.6-GR) with ESMTP id AHI30980; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 18:06:21 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <406DF1EC.4050400@cisco.com>
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 18:06:20 -0500
From: Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@cisco.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.1) Gecko/20020826
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Miguel Garcia <Miguel.An.Garcia@nokia.com>
CC: SIMPLE mailing list <simple@ietf.org>, SIPPING mailing list <sipping@ietf.org>, Gonzalo Camarillo <gonzalo.camarillo@ericsson.com>
Subject: Re: [Sipping] MESSAGE Exploders draft
References: <406BC5A8.4080003@nokia.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org
Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping>, <mailto:sipping-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) <sipping.ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:sipping@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:sipping-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping>, <mailto:sipping-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Miguel,

In general the approach in the draft seems reasonable to me.

I see one area of ambiguity, having to do with how multipart bodies are 
handled. The draft says to remove the list and include everything else. 
But even your example doesn't do that - it also removes the 
multipart/mixed wrapper. Of course in this particular example that makes 
perfect sense, but it goes beyond what the draft says to do.

There are more complex cases:

- for security there could be signed body parts.

   - The signature could be on the multipart containing the message
     and list. It would have to be removed.

   - The signature could be on just the message. Presumably
     it should remain.

- There could be other body parts referenced by cid: urls in
   other headers in the message.

I think there needs to be a more prescriptive way of defining what gets 
passed on in the exploded messages. This is really just a manifestation 
of a more general problem of how to decide how different body parts 
should be processed. It potentially exists in a normal, unexploded, MESSAGE.

I think at least part of the answer lies with Content-Disposition. I 
think there should be clarity about the content-disposition should be 
for the body part(s) that MESSAGE interprets as message content. 
Probably "render" (which is default for sip) would be an appropriate 
content-disposition for message content.

Also, I think there should be some clarity about what the 
content-disposition should be for various kinds of multipart containers 
when used in the various ways they may be used in sip. I'm not quite 
sure what the answer is here.

The list itself is of course referenced from a cid: url. It is the url 
and its placement that determines how the corresponding body part should 
be processed. For these, the content-disposition should be some value 
that doesn't imply some other sort of processing. I think it can't be 
any of "session", "render", "alert", or "icon". Maybe it could be 
"attachment".

	Paul



Miguel Garcia wrote:
> Hi:
> 
> I have just submitted a draft that discusses a exploder of MESSAGEs.
> 
> While it appears in the repository, you can download them from:
> 
> http://people.nokia.net/~miguel/drafts/draft-garcia-simple-message-exploder-00.txt 
> 
> http://people.nokia.net/~miguel/drafts/draft-garcia-simple-message-exploder-00.html 
> 
> 
> Since this is an area covered by SIMPLE (Instant Messaging) and SIPPING 
> (exploders), I am copying both mailing lists.
> 
> Regards,
> 
>      Miguel


_______________________________________________
Sipping mailing list  https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping
This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP
Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip
Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP