Re: [skex] Definition of the term "Key Exchange"

Melchior Aelmans <maelmans@juniper.net> Thu, 11 April 2024 17:47 UTC

Return-Path: <maelmans@juniper.net>
X-Original-To: skex@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: skex@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A336BC15108E for <skex@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 11 Apr 2024 10:47:48 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -9.142
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.142 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-2.049, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=juniper.net header.b="OLpV6I/h"; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=juniper.net header.b="YSDJEGMk"
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9US2zUA5T2Vw for <skex@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 11 Apr 2024 10:47:45 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com (mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com [67.231.152.164]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E3B9DC151087 for <skex@ietf.org>; Thu, 11 Apr 2024 10:47:44 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from pps.filterd (m0108163.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com (8.17.1.24/8.17.1.24) with ESMTP id 43B9hbYN003943; Thu, 11 Apr 2024 10:47:44 -0700
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juniper.net; h= from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to :content-type:mime-version; s=PPS1017; bh=cWd69koFDx5L42WidR9vFN a5Y3Qs09oV/xARAB6CJRQ=; b=OLpV6I/hm5Dte5N470M1OsXZq0iZhkhBSc+42G 62If2hNUMJoulrkLCOHXAj1nlJkIWLdsErmzO+w7UcA42dRJP6XROpdqCtFUF6Ul YocH+FoUJtEcY9Aplb7GhOM0Kn/jVA/umDvfulmIWojzWOIbYyl9ntPBaSSb2qQk F7c0cm/1/4+iey2juaEFChPahusFBGVadWawtq4ilMpmNfSFH333qEgg9btbQ9Mo s9GqP0pEMo/mopZ0PkGNlD+F1iujspNB4kz0H2fxySaQneK/ehV9rq+mLH8r8PZJ Bb6kGe+PD0CCUFZ/QcazLVFKqdanKqjKsJXsCzchOTwqRTfQ==
Received: from cy4pr05cu001.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-westcentralusazlp17010009.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.93.6.9]) by mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3xb1mngj0m-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 11 Apr 2024 10:47:43 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=fSV3i2QL67lg8LetEeeo+WiuDhRSj4m7i165yESe5k+YP/S3h3XpBxhWEF017qeAVsaX+Os/cv4rqyXKWTAAt6YVl0XVWi7jrwssNkuKXS/lyIXuerCj2Lx1jzIFuWYxb+Q8ctK530RYWCCDRqFaFhyeCV/YBsDxq/OC+fm0xODszIz//lySv79K4rEegRowoG3KcjKozHJIwW0EAyDsAg/Ji1qwgnH89MPyKzWRdeNdRQV+qG7dwwS2ZeWDMFWCxzh5dqVaxnYJy2QvGicULdYNB/dIcCVKQoxMsQk8U6bVJpMAAnb6ub+B2Aa0MMWkOMH0AXPknbNIm4puxNxrnA==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=cWd69koFDx5L42WidR9vFNa5Y3Qs09oV/xARAB6CJRQ=; b=EQKpRB/IWgQTCcHS0Hmv4iC08VpLVtbQuV3l48OPjCY71vRjW3Y/iN4TkAcV467yX1eBZDuULVSOJOHzxxJqNzQWoj67SYkEDmQI9JrbLKp/8JfkBSE6vjyD8D5lLh9cFGR5TF8J8TOzg5aUSqj6OIAvWevYOJl7j/hvs7b9UMGs8d0TTSpI4ML4Ds2J7pfWDleBw6H7X6yRhhfVu5A3uX3Fwy5hXSlgTSbdm3uQ7E6/LcPW/Nh4csjs5Qq71Q28jIw6X3Sc4Jr3tlFJIfDPsI9XjtN4kYuH/jFM8/SvBNRYZDP400w0qPO6VgjtB5Zc3iWB+AHad8iRKu1tUPsRHg==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=juniper.net; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=juniper.net; dkim=pass header.d=juniper.net; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juniper.net; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=cWd69koFDx5L42WidR9vFNa5Y3Qs09oV/xARAB6CJRQ=; b=YSDJEGMkKB54Qt1iGGvf4TZZk4fozrkhsNsQYiPozyg+9oOtMGTZi4xSsRKwVVJm+pLe4mHmK3OW6LqnuBFwYjBk4W/UOl7jiiK7W0p7CWyQ/hOZnNSFgszatHXxQDELpC9ee9NS74Szv5VNLAvgR5FLSi0vGVrLFQHUuox2GYs=
Received: from CY4PR0501MB3906.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:910:92::20) by BY3PR05MB7955.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:36c::23) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.7409.46; Thu, 11 Apr 2024 17:47:41 +0000
Received: from CY4PR0501MB3906.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::ab8c:c448:48d1:9621]) by CY4PR0501MB3906.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::ab8c:c448:48d1:9621%3]) with mapi id 15.20.7409.042; Thu, 11 Apr 2024 17:47:40 +0000
From: Melchior Aelmans <maelmans@juniper.net>
To: Manfred von Willich <manfred.vonwillich@quantumbridge.io>
CC: "skex@ietf.org" <skex@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [skex] Definition of the term "Key Exchange"
Thread-Index: AdqMEGp/0gBtMckaTxivmzud63V2qwAJQrOAAACNCEY=
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2024 17:47:27 +0000
Message-ID: <CY4PR0501MB3906129E437AB672948A4E3FC0052@CY4PR0501MB3906.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <06b62da40b2b48c1937f79b636cd6e13@huawei.com> <CAL96d56HqLyUueGOGWJ+pR58hftyhpBPfVbWwrY7+DZ2OyXYbw@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAL96d56HqLyUueGOGWJ+pR58hftyhpBPfVbWwrY7+DZ2OyXYbw@mail.gmail.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-GB
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
msip_labels: MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Enabled=True; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SiteId=bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SetDate=2024-04-11T17:42:45.2936954Z; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_ContentBits=0; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Method=Standard
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: CY4PR0501MB3906:EE_|BY3PR05MB7955:EE_
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: fcece645-4bdb-4e95-d6ef-08dc5a4f7be2
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: a+TuczueSDE1fHMJNk98MPVrV9RLtMmA9ziwu0gTb/OGbwXVwynRyy14nwq3Zq+v2WMRHcwmi+GxmcvkT6oHhVy0dLCCJsDyHk9sXzoypzwXsQSf1L52toMURB63c6eTQCmP+RijUMQryAZOfYTWlCjdYAUexVAMRqRKilhqYTWefBq3zk/ZMiBq9zVX6FdTxUi0wU13FT9sUKwOpOVCEqUDsIORhsNRB5GXhG67CXDXLA5ZX9tZ3FHgV0oSNhZwbiauQBvgWd33LqDVkAv8kjA2pqR9AoJrb2quWFB9IEV6ddZikHXTVsxXhU4fzuwBdem4AvNzyrbR3B+4zA26IRrv71kTtMkDHvY2RCbm+ZCHF8NGToA03aDI6ZMO2VpfFK6AHUBH9qfCVo+2Keod5f1XnQMN1Vi6IPqrk7LAv1IaSP/mN3xhnBKCWUim/HUihe05M52FSC5FO1rXfhJUq4PDjJByp9Ct0smz5Y+H8Cnvqd6bCvyBYREgh+j/i8k7nKYUvtKAgNc0ZWwLSCZVfeqNXwnxnIG+Di1bVrm8AKk7ngCMCDQ2LVc3YKezQ2xjZj9tl/rby6YImpoLcm441hUw/aT2j5KcU30OZyZeD6AtcLku6oQcmy9Bm8f7ms/YApwHgADCjN4/SdAninJgOJBRUDhNZP2hOv3HO3xtYCSPGhVGw33zXjnWr+miN/Q1hEpwumNEA0qTFbpa06fNXT0CjdEOTN7irE3sr4qxeDE=
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:CY4PR0501MB3906.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(13230031)(376005)(1800799015)(366007)(38070700009); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102;
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: 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
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CY4PR0501MB3906129E437AB672948A4E3FC0052CY4PR0501MB3906_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: CY4PR0501MB3906.namprd05.prod.outlook.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: fcece645-4bdb-4e95-d6ef-08dc5a4f7be2
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 11 Apr 2024 17:47:40.6526 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: Ifms5wOLJGFdt0BhC6CX3mnslHtYkwRFFvgANZO3Lg13JfYlZSeyv8JiPvsmJiCqDJlhN8GopsiwgkbLErUqQA==
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BY3PR05MB7955
X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: _NEVmxIwAJaP7zwpNGFwPfnO1PJ_Dp_8
X-Proofpoint-GUID: _NEVmxIwAJaP7zwpNGFwPfnO1PJ_Dp_8
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.272,Aquarius:18.0.1011,Hydra:6.0.619,FMLib:17.11.176.26 definitions=2024-04-11_10,2024-04-09_01,2023-05-22_02
X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 mlxscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 clxscore=1011 impostorscore=0 phishscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 malwarescore=0 priorityscore=1501 suspectscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 spamscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.19.0-2404010003 definitions=main-2404110129
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/skex/Hh_am8YcrXepFLcEpGcXxBQBvcg>
Subject: Re: [skex] Definition of the term "Key Exchange"
X-BeenThere: skex@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: Symmetric Key Exchange <skex.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/skex>, <mailto:skex-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/skex/>
List-Post: <mailto:skex@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:skex-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/skex>, <mailto:skex-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2024 17:47:48 -0000

Agreed, "Key Establishment" appears to be a more precise term.



Juniper Business Use Only

From: skex <skex-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Manfred von Willich <manfred.vonwillich@quantumbridge.io>
Date: Thursday, 11 April 2024 at 19:27
To:
Cc: skex@ietf.org <skex@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [skex] Definition of the term "Key Exchange"
[External Email. Be cautious of content]

On Thu, Apr 11, 2024 at 9:30 AM Panwei (William) <william.panwei=40huawei.com@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:40huawei.com@dmarc.ietf.org>> wrote:

As this mailing list and the potential BoF is named Symmetric Key Exchange, I think my following problem may be related to this list.

I've got a little bit confused by the term "Key Exchange" after some search for related terms.
 ...
Then, in the definition of "key establishment", it says key establishment is a procedure that combines the key-generation and key-distribution, and the two basic techniques for key establishment are "key agreement" and "key transport".
In the definition of "key agreement", you can find out that it recognizes key agreement as the asymmetric cryptographic algorithms like DH.

Should I think of key exchange in a broad sense as key establishment, and in a narrow sense as (asymmetric) key agreement?

The term "key exchange" will cause ongoing confusion, as it is almost universally used to mean a (typically asymmetric) DH-like process.  We definitely intend the broader concept of "key establishment" in this context.  The BoF and WG should be named with this in mind.  Is there a reasonable way to rename this email thread?  Maybe to "SKE" for symmetric key establishment?

Manfred