[lamps] Re: draft-ietf-lamps-rfc5273bis-08 ietf last call Secdir review
Sean Turner <sean@sn3rd.com> Mon, 29 September 2025 13:57 UTC
Return-Path: <sean@sn3rd.com>
X-Original-To: spasm@mail2.ietf.org
Delivered-To: spasm@mail2.ietf.org
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB05F6A8F6D1 for <spasm@mail2.ietf.org>; Mon, 29 Sep 2025 06:57:05 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ietf.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.099
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: mail2.ietf.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=sn3rd.com
Received: from mail2.ietf.org ([166.84.6.31]) by localhost (mail2.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DLrnWrQxO2KE for <spasm@mail2.ietf.org>; Mon, 29 Sep 2025 06:57:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-qk1-x72a.google.com (mail-qk1-x72a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::72a]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6F3186A8F6B6 for <spasm@ietf.org>; Mon, 29 Sep 2025 06:57:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-qk1-x72a.google.com with SMTP id af79cd13be357-85e76e886a0so328581285a.1 for <spasm@ietf.org>; Mon, 29 Sep 2025 06:57:05 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sn3rd.com; s=google; t=1759154219; x=1759759019; darn=ietf.org; h=references:to:cc:in-reply-to:date:subject:mime-version:message-id :from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=YCOjsGbT4EKHwc9z+jjQp+Qq0UzAKU3wPSNutplwT/s=; b=Dx4yDKqPHl9D2RuD5bzrHqlxzQ7po9XR/NmtPcupFVjXUXj48Xx2boVmv43grk569H VdMEwvdAFqFudqFv1l/jXeSiG2gDCOWFxL1Gf4JIyNJPRKjL1YQmzW+Sgwlzkbzkuicw zljxNexu1dwrdBeEPTHG6woWVQp9366fR2Hck=
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1759154219; x=1759759019; h=references:to:cc:in-reply-to:date:subject:mime-version:message-id :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=YCOjsGbT4EKHwc9z+jjQp+Qq0UzAKU3wPSNutplwT/s=; b=TgzZuTe26ySROmqThK1tvFBvRdZRwVYlQxHasrRxIclaVr6zBF3/0B+ASndPaMBS84 e832gr5J3mxd8OScMWbbMkYADc5lg/ePVU+kHXlUz2seDoDAxLqnGzQnfMzpL3KAOuUB Ymf9hNdJ42avP5c3W27cttXMg/UTcmuUzu01pByvAjZvXOguh56+HqjyBlzebPUtre4+ 8EqyXkzkCAprp7eS5W+IhlKySEjAl5Do9+TLrBabloYKroXAYOd1ICTxGjallY3vICWg r9CsawG4itnH8iht1uUQ5hKvEYwrPszFs1gb8F1IAIi/YIPISa1AMfUNl8yHaDoeCGvQ 4qnQ==
X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCVcqxTfXrmCyqnLUjgeQ8AYtOnRou8Y8MgdF9ZajyY9I3M+xpoBIPGw0M6youPZbGMtcV8dOg==@ietf.org
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Ywfm4ux3xS2Cy1XNA7NtOxIbX0ZG/pInRyeNcRjOAv/dS/dUB2u 9mYCRmv7JFsPdrQ0LpFAA/+BZEVSyH+7jU6IBdBNbq1ZEXT5MlmYtfqV/g9yChzIIRt999vfMEB xaohMwiY=
X-Gm-Gg: ASbGnctbRC2E2QN2/NHvzd5we359O2YI+aH5qyTbKFafXB5Sh3bNzjsVj8EDy6lq5VY 2A+yVZILPlFQibow48xZ1PpuA2Yll4Z833PACQ3ZtZB1UPonHMkCPt+UXR4ooRlODyB1vrO0I8b KiOBWekZZR2MZkrr2iGX08FdZCcWuD5GI2tna3EMM6iu66t8d+zlAlegLILlwM7p/XbRnZjtHTv GiAPx1M1GUXYs0Tc4nYSQ3uFTZyFGGBPHtTlv7DMFbHZxb1svtUPL7XtW8eSpCTTAggOjIRsu/m fJdSTpaa3Dp7LjkoNNxn9rVy8h0Jpzyze1GL3FveWl208agI2atzr2IN+5sr+F5BXivG8x3eBqt FViV3QeQ1NvVIS0QCjZ8Eyph5ztBBX2DZT8DPTglGxN1mFJe4vp31YL5enp0P2NJJAYknAHdfEe 1ZTILPie6mvndr9qG8p6Pe
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IG4EtVCRF16nuqP4a6cnU0roWJqkaVO9kGNpa0FQd9ogblLlVTe1CwBxYooc1czcybMbTmkNg==
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:611b:b0:805:7dfb:2bde with SMTP id 6a1803df08f44-8057dfb2c0emr194125366d6.12.1759154219108; Mon, 29 Sep 2025 06:56:59 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from smtpclient.apple ([2600:4040:252a:8d00:4c34:cb50:6b68:bb03]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 6a1803df08f44-80136c84338sm74750126d6.10.2025.09.29.06.56.57 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 29 Sep 2025 06:56:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sean Turner <sean@sn3rd.com>
Message-Id: <FF6A80E4-074F-482B-987B-6E8E25A09653@sn3rd.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_9493958B-5AAD-41FA-80D1-43608C9EEB1F"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.700.81\))
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2025 09:56:35 -0400
In-Reply-To: <007E0DC7-83FC-4424-8C98-E240C56D8E0B@sn3rd.com>
To: Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>
References: <175710826468.831636.17610359058310470993@dt-datatracker-f7c8fdcb7-pjx77> <007E0DC7-83FC-4424-8C98-E240C56D8E0B@sn3rd.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.700.81)
Message-ID-Hash: I5QJR6L4MRX5B6NAKHZJ2BZG6TUE2NT3
X-Message-ID-Hash: I5QJR6L4MRX5B6NAKHZJ2BZG6TUE2NT3
X-MailFrom: sean@sn3rd.com
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-spasm.ietf.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
CC: secdir@ietf.org, draft-ietf-lamps-rfc5273bis.all@ietf.org, last-call@ietf.org, spasm@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
Subject: [lamps] Re: draft-ietf-lamps-rfc5273bis-08 ietf last call Secdir review
List-Id: This is the mail list for the LAMPS Working Group <spasm.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spasm/B7ugHWuE-owenzEahyI8AEm6S4M>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/spasm>
List-Help: <mailto:spasm-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:spasm-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:spasm@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:spasm-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:spasm-leave@ietf.org>
Ben, Trimming down to just two I was hoping you could help with. spt > On Sep 15, 2025, at 22:12, Sean Turner <sean@sn3rd.com> wrote: > …snip 1) >> Content shrouding is not exactly available for the mail-based protocol, which >> should get a mention (and thus suggestion to use EnvelopedData there as well, >> or perhaps operationally ensure that SMTP is going over TLS). > > I guess I’m somewhat confused by this comment. Since CMC uses CMS if you want to shroud it can use EnvelopedData (more on AuthEnvelopedData later), so this addresses all of the instances where you wouldn’t have had prior trust relationships. > > No problem adding some text about running SMTP over TLS, but isn’t that addressed by para #2? 2) >> And I guess the analogue for the file-based protocol is file permissions, >> which we don't currently talk about at all (we should). > > I would be happy to add something, but what? Tracking via: > https://github.com/lamps-wg/cmcbis/issues/162 …snip
- [lamps] draft-ietf-lamps-rfc5273bis-08 ietf last … Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker
- [lamps] Re: draft-ietf-lamps-rfc5273bis-08 ietf l… Sean Turner
- [lamps] Re: draft-ietf-lamps-rfc5273bis-08 ietf l… Sean Turner
- [lamps] Re: draft-ietf-lamps-rfc5273bis-08 ietf l… Benjamin Kaduk
- [lamps] Re: draft-ietf-lamps-rfc5273bis-08 ietf l… Sean Turner
- [lamps] Re: draft-ietf-lamps-rfc5273bis-08 ietf l… Sean Turner