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Re: [lamps] prehash PQ Sig OIDs (was Re: pre-hashing the OID in draft-ounsworth-pq-composite-sigs-10)

Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> Mon, 27 November 2023 20:44 UTC

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From: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
To: Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com>, "spasm@ietf.org" <spasm@ietf.org>
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Comments: In-reply-to Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com> message dated "Mon, 27 Nov 2023 12:51:30 -0500."
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Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2023 21:44:06 +0100
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Subject: Re: [lamps] prehash PQ Sig OIDs (was Re: pre-hashing the OID in draft-ounsworth-pq-composite-sigs-10)
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Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com> wrote:
    > I think we need a reset here to look at the reason prehashing is an
    > issue.

Thanks, this was a useful read.

...
    > And that is all entirely OK and not subject to some sort of
    > substitution attack provided that the signature is bound to some
    > attribute saying what is being signed.

    > That approach does not fit into the PKCS#7 model because it is over 30
    > years old and we weren't thinking in those terms then. But we should be
    > thinking about that now.

I think you are saying, the fact that you can break some things that use
PKCS#7, doesn't mean that we should never pre-hash.

    > There is certainly an argument to be made for CMS only having one OID
    > for ML-DSA. There is also the fact that some applications that expect
    > to use CMS cannot use Direct. Therefore, a CMS profile for ML-DSA that
    > always requires prehashing is the logical approach.

    > We do still need an oid for ML-DSA direct however because it will be
    > used by the applications that make use of signatures that incorporate a
    > manifest such as Jose and XML-Signature. And even if they might not
    > appear to use OIDs for algorithm identification, there are other
    > manifest formats that do make use of OIDs and need to make the
    > distinction.

+1.


--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
 -= IPv6 IoT consulting =-                      *I*LIKE*TRAINS*

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