RE: [Speechsc] Problem with draft-6 RECOGNIZEcommandandtest/uri-listcontent type
"Wyss, Felix" <FelixW@inin.com> Wed, 15 June 2005 18:36 UTC
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Subject: RE: [Speechsc] Problem with draft-6 RECOGNIZEcommandandtest/uri-listcontent type
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:36:42 -0500
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Thread-Topic: [Speechsc] Problem with draft-6 RECOGNIZEcommandandtest/uri-listcontent type
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From: "Wyss, Felix" <FelixW@inin.com>
To: Dave Burke <david.burke@voxpilot.com>, "Shanmugham, Saravanan" <sarvi@cisco.com>, "David R. Oran" <oran@cisco.com>
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Cc: speechsc@ietf.org, "Bennett, Patrick" <Patrick.Bennett@inin.com>
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I think that's a terrible abuse of the MIME types! The weight parameter controls the weight with which the grammar is considered in a particular recognition operation. That has *absolutely nothing* to do with the type of the grammar. Using a MIME-type parameter for this would be akin to controlling the text size of an HTML page through its MIME type. I personally don't really have a problem with using an inline "one-of" grammar. However, if that's considered too much hassle for the clients, what about introducing a content type text/grammar-refs for the RECOGNIZE command? Each line of the body would be a URI enclosed in angle brackets, followed by a colon and a list of parameters. For example: Channel-Identifier: 123456789012345@speechrecog N-Best-List-Length: 3 Content-Type: text/grammar-refs Content-Length: xxx <http://myserver/grammars/form1.gram> <http://myserver/grammars/form2.gram>:weight=0.85 <http://myserver/grammars/universals.gram>:weight=0.75 Felix > -----Original Message----- > From: speechsc-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:speechsc-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of Dave Burke > Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 04:05 > To: Shanmugham, Saravanan; David R. Oran > Cc: speechsc@ietf.org; Bennett, Patrick > Subject: Re: [Speechsc] Problem with draft-6 RECOGNIZEcommandandtest/uri- > listcontent type > > I did some quick research into extending MIME headers and noted the > following: > - RFC2045 allows new Content-* extensions > - No IANA considerations apply > - Seems like new headers introduced in the past have had their own RFC > (e.g. RFC2912 and RFC3803). > > We would be defining a new MIME header inside the MRCP specification... > > A slicker approach could be to request to the author of the I-D that > defines > the application/srgs+xml media type > (http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-froumentin-voice-mediatypes- > 02.txt) > to add an optional parameter called 'weight' so we could use something > like: > > Content-Type: application/srgs+xml;weight=0.75 > > The values could take on the VoiceXML definition, which I believe has the > right amount of generality. > > I defer to more experienced IETFeers on whether either of these approaches > appear tenable. > > Dave > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Shanmugham, Saravanan" <sarvi@cisco.com> > To: "Dave Burke" <david.burke@voxpilot.com>; "David R. Oran" > <oran@cisco.com> > Cc: <Speechsc@ietf.org>; "Bennett, Patrick" <Patrick.Bennett@inin.com> > Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 8:24 PM > Subject: RE: [Speechsc] Problem with draft-6 RECOGNIZE > commandandtest/uri-listcontent type > > > I am fine with Option iii, but the we would be trying to extend MIME > headers which I am not sure if its extenisble or what the procedure to > define new MIME-headers are. Could find any good examples. > > So I chose the next best thing which was to use a <One-of> rule id > approach. > > Sarvi > > -----Original Message----- > From: speechsc-bounces@ietf.org > [mailto:speechsc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Dave Burke > Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 9:41 AM > To: David R. Oran > Cc: Speechsc@ietf.org; Bennett, Patrick > Subject: Re: [Speechsc] Problem with draft-6 RECOGNIZE > commandandtest/uri-listcontent type > > To be clear, I think there are two issues: > A. How to word the precedence when input matches more than > one active grammar? > B. How to specify a weight for a complete grammar? (see > http://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/speechsc/current/msg0 > 1023.html) > > For A, how about appending the sentence in 1. and 2. so > that we get: > > ...the order of inclusion controls the corresponding > precedence for the grammars during recognition should the > input match more than one active grammar. > > For B, which point 3 addresses, there are three options discussed: > (i) Use the One-Of-Rule-Id-URI mechanism below > (ii) Add an informative note that a <one-of> grammar can > be used to apply weights to grammars (One-Of-Rule-Id-URI > is unnecessary ) > (iii) Go with Jeff's idea of adding a new header to a MIME part > (http://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/speechsc/current/msg > 01102.html) Small refinement though, the header should be > called Content-Grammar-Weight to fit RFC2045's extension mechanism > > My preference is for (iii) over (ii) because if my MRCP > client runs VoiceXML then I'm going to have to handle > cases when <grammar> has a weight attribute and build up a > <one-of> grammar. This is just annoying complexity for the client. > > Dave > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David R. Oran" <oran@cisco.com> > To: "Dave Burke" <david.burke@voxpilot.com> > Cc: <Speechsc@ietf.org>; "Bennett, Patrick" > <Patrick.Bennett@inin.com> > Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 5:02 PM > Subject: Re: [Speechsc] Problem with draft-6 RECOGNIZE > command andtest/uri-listcontent type > > > I agree with Dave, but I also believe the current text is > quite torturous and prone to misinterpretation. I had held > off screwing around with it because of my shaky > understanding of the "one-of-rule- id" stuff but now that > I think I can get it right I've taken a whack at it. > > This is what the in-progress version of the spec says: > > The RECOGNIZE request uses the message body to specify the > grammars applicable to the request. The active grammar(s) > for the request can be specified in one of 3 ways. > > 1. The grammer may be placed directly in the message body > using MIME content. If more than one grammar is included > in the body, the order of inclusion controls the > corresponding precedence for the grammars during recognition. > 2. The body may contain a list of grammar URIs specified > in a mime- content of type text/uri-list. The order of the > URIs determines the corrensponding precedence for the > grammars during recognition. > 3. The active grammar among a set of grammars can > specified using a One-Of-Rule-Id-URI header in the > message. This header (see Section > 9.4.24 (One-Of-Rule-Id-URI)) refers to a specific <one-of> > rule-id contained in the grammar (or grammars) specified > in the body of the message. > > Are further adjustments needed? > > > On Jun 14, 2005, at 11:25 AM, Dave Burke wrote: > > > The precedence is not related to weighting. The text > here covers the > > case if you had two grammars say gram1.grxml and > gram2.grxml both of > > which recognise the token "speech" but return a > different semantic > > interpretation. If gram2.grxml follows gram1.grxml in > the uri-list > > then it is gram1.grxml that is matched and it is gram1.grxml's > > semantic interpretation result that is returned in the NLSML. > > > > This is also required for VoiceXML 2.x behaviour (see http:// > > www.w3.org/TR/2004/REC-voicexml20-20040316/#dml3.1.4). > > > > Dave > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Bennett, Patrick > > To: Speechsc@ietf.org > > Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 4:09 PM > > Subject: [Speechsc] Problem with draft-6 RECOGNIZE > command and test/ > > uri-listcontent type > > > > According to the latest draft on page 89: > > > > > > ...The RECOGNIZE method MUST carry the grammars that need to > be > > > > activated for that RECOGNIZE method, in its message body. The > > > > grammars that need to be activated can be specified > in one of 3 > > > > ways. The grammar content could be specified as a > mime-content in > > > > the message body. It could be a simple list of grammar URIs > > > > specified in a mime-content of type text/uri-list, in > which case > > the > > > > order of the URI refer to the precedence order of the grammars > > > > during the recognize. ... > > > > > > The problem here is the statement "in which case the > order of the URI > > refer to the precedence order of the grammars during > the recognize." > > > > Well, what is the EXACT precedence? Shouldn't each of > the grammars > > be considered as equally weighted alternatives? > Ideally, all must be > > weighted equally unless a specific weight parameter was > specified > > with each URI. > > > > As currently specified, this part of the specification > is basically > > worthless. No MRCP client would ever send multiple URIs > to an MRCP > > server via a uri-list since the weighting applied to > each grammar is > > completely undefined. > > > > This really needs to be corrected. > > > > > > Patrick Bennett > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Speechsc mailing list > > Speechsc@ietf.org > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/speechsc > > _______________________________________________ > > Speechsc mailing list > > Speechsc@ietf.org > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/speechsc > > > > _______________________________________________ > Speechsc mailing list > Speechsc@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/speechsc > > > _______________________________________________ > Speechsc mailing list > Speechsc@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/speechsc > > > > _______________________________________________ > Speechsc mailing list > Speechsc@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/speechsc _______________________________________________ Speechsc mailing list Speechsc@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/speechsc
- RE: [Speechsc] Problem with draft-6 RECOGNIZEcomm… Wyss, Felix
- RE: [Speechsc] Problem with draft-6 RECOGNIZEcomm… Shanmugham, Saravanan
- Re: [Speechsc] Problem with draft-6 RECOGNIZEcomm… David R. Oran
- RE: [Speechsc] Problem with draft-6 RECOGNIZEcomm… Wyss, Felix
- RE: [Speechsc] Problem with draft-6 RECOGNIZEcomm… Shanmugham, Saravanan
- Re: [Speechsc] Problem with draft-6 RECOGNIZEcomm… Dave Burke
- RE: [Speechsc] Problem with draft-6 RECOGNIZEcomm… Wyss, Felix
- Re: [Speechsc] Problem with draft-6 RECOGNIZEcomm… Dave Burke
- RE: [Speechsc] Problem with draft-6 RECOGNIZEcomm… Wyss, Felix
- Re: [Speechsc] Problem with draft-6RECOGNIZEcomma… Dave Burke