Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in draft-hegde-spring-traffic-accounting-for-sr-paths
Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com> Fri, 17 November 2017 02:58 UTC
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Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 10:58:07 +0800
From: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
To: spring <spring@ietf.org>, mpls <mpls@ietf.org>
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Thread-Topic: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in draft-hegde-spring-traffic-accounting-for-sr-paths
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Subject: Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in draft-hegde-spring-traffic-accounting-for-sr-paths
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Hi, Some comments after reading the thread: /*rtgwg-chair hat on I wonder, who are the mighty “we” who are better than unworthy “them”? I find the wording rather unfortunate */ The problem statement – Uniquely identify at any given node: (SID stack, *) or (*, source) or (SID stack, source) Data plane – metadata encoding (label(s), VNID, none, etc) Control plane – capability adv, context adv, potentially divided over flooding facility (IGP/BGP) and an NBI (BGP-LS/PCEP) If we agree, there’s a problem to solve, we review every proposal made, pros/cons analysis. If there’s none – we move on. Thoughts? Cheers, Jeff From: mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com> Date: Thursday, November 16, 2017 at 16:25 To: Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> Cc: draft-hegde-spring-traffic-accounting-for-sr-paths <draft-hegde-spring-traffic-accounting-for-sr-paths@ietf.org>, spring <spring@ietf.org>, mpls <mpls@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in draft-hegde-spring-traffic-accounting-for-sr-paths Hi Folks, I also agree that it’s not a question on requirement but about a procedure (in draft-hegde-spring-traffic-accounting-for-sr-paths) that breaks SR Architecture, highly unscalable and complicated to implement. We can solve this problem without breaking the SR architecture. We plan to write a draft before the next IETF. Thanks Regards … Zafar From: Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com> Date: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 at 9:54 PM To: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> Cc: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>, draft-hegde-spring-traffic-accounting-for-sr-paths <draft-hegde-spring-traffic-accounting-for-sr-paths@ietf.org>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, spring <spring@ietf.org> Subject: RE: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in draft-hegde-spring-traffic-accounting-for-sr-paths I fully agree with you that OAM tools are important. I just felt that the approach as proposed in the draft would enconter the same terrible issues as those associated with the MPLS-SR entropy label usage due to RLD and MSD hardware limitations. Best regards, Xiaohu 徐小虎 Xuxiaohu M:+86-13910161692 E:xuxiaohu@huawei.com 产品与解决方案-网络战略与业务发展部 Products & Solutions-Network Strategy & Business Development Dept 发件人: Greg Mirsky 收件人: Xuxiaohu<xuxiaohu@huawei.com> 抄送: Zafar Ali (zali)<zali@cisco.com>;draft-hegde-spring-traffic-accounting-for-sr-paths<draft-hegde-spring-traffic-accounting-for-sr-paths@ietf.org>;mpls<mpls@ietf.org>;spring<spring@ietf.org> 主题: Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in draft-hegde-spring-traffic-accounting-for-sr-paths 时间: 2017-11-16 10:27:55 Dear All, I cannot imagine that operators will agree to deploy network that lacks critical OAM tools to monitor performance and troubleshoot the network. True, some will brave the challenge and be the early adopters but even they will likely request that the OAM toolbox be sufficient to support their operational needs. I see that this work clearly describes the problem and why ability to quantify the flow behavior at internal nodes is important for efficient network operation. First let's discuss whether the case and requirement towards OAM is real and valid. Then we can continue to discussion of what measurement method to use. Regards, Greg On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 10:05 AM, Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com> wrote: Concur. Although it has some values, it's not cost-efficient from my point of view. Network simplicity should be the first priority object. Hence we would have to make some compromise. Best regards, Xiaohu 徐小虎 Xuxiaohu M:+86-13910161692 E:xuxiaohu@huawei.com 产品与解决方案-网络战略与业务发展部 Products & Solutions-Network Strategy & Business Development Dept 发件人: Zafar Ali (zali) 收件人: Greg Mirsky<gregimirsky@gmail.com>;draft-hegde-spring-traffic-accounting-for-sr-paths<draft-hegde-spring-traffic-accounting-for-sr-paths@ietf.org>;mpls<mpls@ietf.org>;spring<spring@ietf.org> 主题: Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in draft-hegde-spring-traffic-accounting-for-sr-paths 时间: 2017-11-16 02:24:10 Hi, This draft breaks the SR architecture. I am quoting a snippet from abstract of SR Architecture document https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13, which states: “SR allows to enforce a flow through any topological path while maintaining per-flow state only at the ingress nodes to the SR domain.” In addition to creating states at transit and egress nodes, the procedure also affects the data plane and makes it unscalable. It also makes controller job much harder and error prune. In summary, I find the procedure very complex and unscalable. Thanks Regards … Zafar From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> Date: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 at 11:10 AM To: "draft-hegde-spring-traffic-accounting-for-sr-paths@ietf.org" <draft-hegde-spring-traffic-accounting-for-sr-paths@ietf.org>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org> Subject: [spring] Special purpose labels in draft-hegde-spring-traffic-accounting-for-sr-paths Hi Shraddha, thank you for very well written and thought through draft. I have these questions I'd like to discuss: · Have you thought of using not one special purpose label for both SR Path Identifier and SR Path Identifier+Source SID cases but request two special purpose labels, one for each case. Then the SR Path Identifier would not have to lose the bit for C flag. · And how you envision to collect the counters along the path? Of course, a Controller may query LSR for all counters or counters for the particular flow (SR Path Identifier+Source SID). But in addition I'd propose to use in-band mechanism, perhaps another special purpose label, to trigger the LSR to send counters of the same flow with the timestamp out-band to the predefined Collector. · And the last, have you considered ability to flush counters per flow. In Scalability Considerations you've stated that counters are maintained as long as collection of statistics is enabled. If that is on the node scope, you may have to turn off/on the collection to flush off some old counters. I think that finer granularity, per flow granularity would be useful for operators. Again, perhaps the flow itself may be used to signal the end of the measurement and trigger release of counters. Regards, Greg _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
- [spring] Special purpose labels in draft-hegde-sp… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [spring] Special purpose labels in draft-hegd… Zafar Ali (zali)
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Stewart Bryant
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Xuxiaohu
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… ShaoWen Ma
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Jeff Tantsura
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Xuxiaohu
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Jeff Tantsura
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Shraddha Hegde
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… David Allan I
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Mach Chen
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Xuxiaohu
- Re: [spring] Special purpose labels in draft-hegd… Mach Chen
- Re: [spring] Special purpose labels in draft-hegd… Shah, Himanshu
- Re: [spring] Special purpose labels in draft-hegd… Xuxiaohu
- Re: [spring] Special purpose labels in draft-hegd… Mach Chen
- Re: [spring] Special purpose labels in draft-hegd… Mach Chen
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Chengli (IP Technology Research)
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Jeff Tantsura
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Xuxiaohu
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Xuxiaohu
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Alexander Vainshtein
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Zafar Ali (zali)
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Alexander Vainshtein
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Ruediger.Geib
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Alexander Vainshtein
- [spring] Whether both E2E and SPME performance me… Mach Chen
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Alexander Vainshtein
- Re: [spring] Whether both E2E and SPME performanc… David Allan I
- Re: [spring] Whether both E2E and SPME performanc… Mach Chen
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [spring] Whether both E2E and SPME performanc… Ruediger.Geib
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… stephane.litkowski
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Whether both E2E and SPME per… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Alexander Vainshtein
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Whether both E2E and SPME per… John E Drake
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… John E Drake
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… John E Drake
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Whether both E2E and SPME per… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Alexander Vainshtein
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Whether both E2E and SPME per… Alexander Vainshtein
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… John E Drake
- Re: [spring] Special purpose labels in draft-hegd… John E Drake
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Whether both E2E and SPME per… John E Drake
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Whether both E2E and SPME per… John E Drake
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… John E Drake
- Re: [spring] Special purpose labels in draft-hegd… John E Drake
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Whether both E2E and SPME per… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Mach Chen
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Whether both E2E and SPME per… John E Drake
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Whether both E2E and SPME per… John E Drake
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Whether both E2E and SPME per… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Whether both E2E and SPME per… Alexander Vainshtein
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Whether both E2E and SPME per… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] Whether both E2E and SPME performanc… John E Drake
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Mach Chen
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Whether both E2E and SPME per… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Whether both E2E and SPME per… Mach Chen
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Whether both E2E and SPME per… Greg Mirsky
- [spring] Fwd: Re: [mpls] Special purpose labels i… Stewart Bryant
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Jeff Tantsura
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Fwd: Re: Special purpose labe… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Fwd: Re: Special purpose labe… Stewart Bryant
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Stewart Bryant
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Mach Chen
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… John E Drake
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Fwd: Re: Special purpose labe… Uma Chunduri
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Robert Raszuk
- [spring] measurement requirements (was Re: [mpls]… Martin Horneffer
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Martin Horneffer
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Zafar Ali (zali)
- Re: [spring] measurement requirements (was Re: [m… Zafar Ali (zali)
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Adrian Farrel
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… John E Drake
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Stewart Bryant
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Stewart Bryant
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Zafar Ali (zali)
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Zafar Ali (zali)
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Zafar Ali (zali)
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Zafar Ali (zali)
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Adrian Farrel
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Zafar Ali (zali)
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Stewart Bryant
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Martin Horneffer
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Jeff Tantsura
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [spring] [mpls] Special purpose labels in dra… Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)