Re: [Stox] Communication between STOX-capable and non-STOX-capable entities
Matt Ryan <mryan@getjive.com> Mon, 02 June 2014 17:06 UTC
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Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2014 11:05:52 -0600
From: Matt Ryan <mryan@getjive.com>
Organization: Jive Communications, Inc.
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References: <537ABFA1.2080606@getjive.com> <CDAE759A-8174-46E6-8610-A37E554AB3FD@ag-projects.com> <53872C3C.7000007@stpeter.im> <538748BE.1050608@getjive.com>
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Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/stox/oKRLLsxn7IqaW4IZAJOo0Yn1Ix0
Cc: Saúl Ibarr a Corretgé <saul@ag-projects.com>, Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter@stpeter.im>
Subject: Re: [Stox] Communication between STOX-capable and non-STOX-capable entities
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Further comments in line. On 5/29/14, 8:48 AM, Matt Ryan wrote: > Saúl and Peter, thanks for your input on my question. > > I agree that this is the approach we should take. This direction > is supported by RFC 7427 (previously draft-ietf-stox-core) where > the responsibility for determining the format for communication > and translating if required is put upon the sending server and > it's accompanying gateway, and not upon the receiving server. > > Because of this, I have further concerns with > draft-ietf-stox-chat-06 as well as with > draft-ietf-stox-groupchat-04. I will enumerate these each > separately in their own review emails. For simplicity's sake let me just enumerate my general suggestion instead of separate review emails for each pertinent draft. My apologies for being indecisive. I suggest the drafts contain some formal language indicating the assumptions that should be followed on each side in order to emphasize the interoperability point. For example: - - Given a server sending a message to another server with a different protocol, the sending server doesn't know whether the receiving server supports STOX, and interoperability is a goal, so there should be language indicating that the server SHOULD (MUST?) support sender-side translation of messages from one protocol to the other. - - Because a receiving server might be receiving messages from a sender that does not support STOX, the receiving server SHOULD support destination-side translation of messages from one protocol to the other. I believe this is in harmony both with RFC 7247 and the clarification I received in answer to my question, and that such language would both support and emphasize these two important points. > But in summary, the concerns are that the examples given in these > drafts show the gateways on both sides of communication as being > involved in exchanges where they should not be required, and that > showing the involvement of both gateways gives the impression that > both ARE required. > > In other words, it does not emphasize the point that STOX-capable > servers must be able to communicate effectively with > non-STOX-capable servers, which it seems we agree is important. I believe the discussion in a separate thread addresses this concern for me, wherein we've talked about reworking the examples in the drafts to not show the receiving-side gateway in the diagrams. > > > On 5/29/14, 6:46 AM, Peter Saint-Andre wrote: >> On 5/28/14, 6:37 AM, Saúl Ibarra Corretgé wrote: >>> Hi Matt, >>> >>> On May 20, 2014, at 4:36 AM, Matt Ryan wrote: >>> >>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 >>>> >>>> Should a STOX-capable server be able to communicate with a >>>> non-STOX-capable server, so long as the communication is >>>> started by the STOX-capable server? Is this among the >>>> current goals of the WG? >>>> >>>> Sorry if this has been covered - but this particular point >>>> remains unclear to me despite numerous readings through >>>> draft-ietf-stox-core and some of the other supporting >>>> drafts. >>>> >>>> >>>> Let me provide a simple example to explain what I mean. >>>> >>>> Suppose an XMPP client initiates a chat to a user that >>>> happens to be a SIP client user. Per draft-ietf-stox-chat, >>>> this request flows through the XMPP Server which determines >>>> that the message is targeted to a SIP user, and then invokes >>>> its own XMPP-to-SIP Gateway to translate the request to a SIP >>>> request and send that request on to the appropriate SIP >>>> server. >>>> >>>> So far, the XMPP Server knows that the target user is a SIP >>>> user, but does not know anything about the SIP Server >>>> capabilities other than that it is (presumably) a SIP server. >>>> Importantly, the XMPP Server does not know whether the SIP >>>> Server also supports a SIP-to-XMPP gateway. >>>> >>>> >>>> This is where my question comes. Given the described XMPP >>>> Server with a corresponding XMPP-to-SIP gateway, is it meant >>>> to be the case that this XMPP Server should be able to >>>> communicate with any valid SIP server, so long as the >>>> conversation is initiated by the XMPP Server? >>>> >>>> >>>> This is an important point because it has direct impact on >>>> several of our current drafts. >>>> >>> >>> The idea is that a STOX capable infrastructure is transparent >>> to others. To the eyes of the world, given domain, say >>> example.com has SRV records for SIP and XMPP. The fact that >>> there is an actual gateway handling the traffic and doing some >>> translations is a detail of that infrastructure. So a non-STOX >>> server should be able to communicate with a STOX server just >>> fine. > >> +1 > >> Peter > > > > - -- Matt Ryan Code Slinger | Jive Communications, Inc. Jive.com | mryan at getjive dot com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.22 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJTjK7sAAoJEPyFiw1u4O0cT3oH+gPsBVdEARpG8S81LMInTAzT vPmJMySq0T9fdCm5F0CLudEp9+tfZgGDg1DRCtBYRZWn8AhxK3GCUdlkT0OjO1a7 v4Ordp8dtJNcVLsHsQw7WJX5gkfJGgNrmJ2q1mIsNy1m2YtmGRvTQ6qY1duMUvQu UuIJEIk5eIvOYIy7VhGUsnOMJmvXnxLSO5Lg6KKQNKtumU4VLduYdDTPyr4t6pk8 MIwmbJsbxlD3x3ltBvrnCVey6NUhWac1YcKFOediYeb/7LlaPfkkA4zoD2k0pyfH 4HFuYoqnNyDp3gohzSgDo+zAITgInv4YMeP5bmiNhaeIKGFZ5jAmUsfUUus7f2Y= =WNXx -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
- [Stox] Communication between STOX-capable and non… Matt Ryan
- Re: [Stox] Communication between STOX-capable and… Saúl Ibarra Corretgé
- Re: [Stox] Communication between STOX-capable and… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [Stox] Communication between STOX-capable and… Matt Ryan
- Re: [Stox] Communication between STOX-capable and… Matt Ryan
- Re: [Stox] Communication between STOX-capable and… Saúl Ibarra Corretgé