Re: [tao-discuss] Progress on my suggested rewrite

[Greg Wood <[e-mail]>]

Hi Brian,

> On Aug 23, 2023, at 06:20, Brian E Carpenter <[e-mail]> wrote:
> 
> Thanks for this.
> 
> On 10-Aug-23 00:44, Jay Daley wrote:
>> A further update:
>> - Greg and I are now sharing the load.
>> - On the website we have published the following pages, that are drawn primarily from Tao content.  Currently the ’source’ of these pages is the website CMS, but we’re still looking at these being markdown documents in a public repository that anyone can recommend changes to.
>> https://www.ietf.org/about/introduction/
> 
> I'll send a few nits off list but this looks good to me.
> 
>> https://www.ietf.org/how/meetings/introduction-to-ietf-meetings/  (still to be added to the menus)
> 
> Ooh, what a lot to read. I don't have time right now, but the outline seems good.
> 
>> - The following page includes a significant amount of Tao content.  It is unlikely this one will be in a repository like those above because of how it is used by the Secretariat
>> https://www.ietf.org/how/meetings/new-participants/
> 
> One comment on this is that it is focussed on participants who are already committed to attending a meeting. But the first stop for new participants is *not* a meeting; it's the web site and email. As far as I can tell, you have dropped the previous newcomers' material that talks about that, and IMHO that is a step backwards. Someone who wants to participate only on line doesn't get anything.
> 
> Is there a (modernized) version of the "How to Start" material at
> http://web.archive.org/web/20230131134611/https://www.ietf.org/about/participate/get-started/ ?
> I'd expect to find it at https://www.ietf.org/about/participate/

Yes, we are working on introductory materials with an eye towards meeting potential participants’ intent and the path they are likely take through IETF materials/website.

-Greg

> 
> Regards
>    Brian
> 
>> - The next big piece of work is the "How the IETF Works" (or something similar), as mentioned by Brian. Unlike the pages above, that content will go to the IESG for review.
>> Jay
>>> On 21 Oct 2022, at 23:03, Brian E Carpenter <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Jay,
>>> 
>>> I think the modular approach is the right one. I assume there will always be a single point of entry to the main list of contents.
>>> 
>>> Your goals for the language are right, IMHO. The Tao has moved on to some extent, but it has always reflected US contemporary culture of the late 20th century and we need something that remains informal but is also international without any cultural bias.
>>> 
>>> Maybe we should add a chapter like "Participating outside meetings", which will otherwise probably be hidden in "How the IETF Works". It's a key aspect of the IETF.
>>> 
>>> I haven't done a detailed review of your new text, but the sentence "Remote participation is a" seems to lack something...
>>> 
>>> On a general note, I'm still flummoxed, as I have been for many years, about how to present the sheer complexity of the IETF process. Maybe we can discuss this when you've drafted more text.
>>> 
>>> Regards
>>>   Brian
>>> 
>>> On 14-Oct-22 00:16, Jay Daley wrote:
>>>> As I mentioned in a previous message, I would like to see the Tao rewritten as a set of smaller documents that can be assembled into one when required.  Those documents would be something like:
>>>> - Introduction to the IETF
>>>> - How the IETF Works
>>>> - Participating in IETF Meetings
>>>> - Structure and Governance of the IETF
>>>> - Culture and Folklore of the IETF
>>>> I’ve now produced drafts of two of these:
>>>> 1. Introduction to the IETF  (shared before.)
>>>> https://github.com/JayDaley/tao/blob/main/Introduction%20to%20the%20IETF.md
>>>> 2. Participating in IETF Meetings (new)
>>>> https://github.com/JayDaley/tao/blob/main/Participating%20in%20IETF%20Meetings.md
>>>> In this second document, there are too many changes from section 3 of the Tao to list them all but they include:
>>>> * different structure
>>>> * moving new participant info into a single block
>>>> * added details of several agenda elements that were not covered
>>>> * added details of onsite facilities that were not covered
>>>> * removed out-of-date stuff such as corkboards, jabber, etc
>>>> * added missing colour to the dots
>>>> * trimmed the existing text to remove repetition and "remarks I find offputting" (I have no better way to explain it but see https://github.com/ietf/tao/issues/57 for an example).
>>>> My intent is to produce text that is friendlier, easier to learn from, more up to date and with a better signal/noise ratio.  I would love to hear if you think I’ve achieved that.
>>>> cheers
>>>> Jay
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