IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [Taps] How to handle Protocol stacks that are not equivalent

Theresa Enghardt <theresa@inet.tu-berlin.de> Tue, 23 July 2019 15:19 UTC

Return-Path: <theresa@inet.tu-berlin.de>
X-Original-To: taps@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: taps@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 659E412036E for <taps@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 08:19:19 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.9
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EGOfasmLlKwC for <taps@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 08:19:17 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail.net.t-labs.tu-berlin.de (mail.net.t-labs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.152.141]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 156761202D5 for <taps@ietf.org>; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 08:19:17 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [IPv6:2001:67c:1232:144:b886:3fad:542b:a48d] (unknown [IPv6:2001:67c:1232:144:b886:3fad:542b:a48d]) by mail.net.t-labs.tu-berlin.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 61E69207EB for <taps@ietf.org>; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 17:19:15 +0200 (CEST)
To: taps@ietf.org
References: <3D1D6BE1-6AE2-4098-A2C8-40ADF73A2316@tiesel.net> <F9C04679-79DB-4CAA-9710-DD5C04FD30E8@apple.com> <5D3722DF.8070000@erg.abdn.ac.uk>
From: Theresa Enghardt <theresa@inet.tu-berlin.de>
Openpgp: preference=signencrypt
Autocrypt: addr=theresa@inet.tu-berlin.de; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQENBE2ktqYBCAC+3mnQMUTPJEPjKD0EaURx171qWkp4M60Zk97aeG6hSDU2GJAKG/IZ9/w7 NXLZxlfmfK9+y4Fia3aHfdhtdh+hZ/nkzhNHEahpt+coChrcaM/xyLmw7QOfYw6pLEe/snPY bdeiNdg3dsM8SFbLPvzs0REiAS9aVsux7fyDFmmJ4BGqJtjSzAv+l3X508wGeKgbUxT1Ceb5 /6DT5U1cPeSSCsXghHi5pcIfwW0KU00Ug56k3gSIRZ3YlahtBXVyIGOfPMLcvxpVypNejCt3 haLfbK6zI1GFHW39ietsk12DEODM0GiOhlCEx0qL+JxmR+A/IHKkINe5aj8Tl/Ie9TfZABEB AAG0N1RoZXJlc2EgRW5naGFyZHQgKFJlc2VhcmNoKSA8dGhlcmVzYUBpbmV0LnR1LWJlcmxp bi5kZT6JAVUEEwEKAD8CGyMGCwkIBwMCBhUIAgkKCwQWAgMBAh4BAheAFiEE7xG3phZ0Plgk 2BDpgz007xx2oPcFAlqgJ40FCRC919sACgkQgz007xx2oPfiHggAsCfbxjo+hlUYdEHmg/a8 RGDZfOqgmNrEWfWbB+H06A3izNpvfRbqdxhi64F8MXtKPxhPGBrB9H3/E3WfsOHc9tJe+19Y GkHBOMhbXmp/o92BVHw6q/l5bcvLO8sgcemqrh8GYZgZrho7F3UTIpb8dkCjt+jCAbsAAFzR 4ziEAqw+2KVmZw5t2/1KygnPsgMz70JGAfq2jTt+NR9DxMizXNa7pZjdSmqhBjCbTlzPnn0C rAkK1/IXSM3Y704asyQrHD2pNxXQyXEe/K5uN6w80gHdyK4bBWVIVZULaRngcKrcX9gillK+ 8zs3nr8eDgsq1cURk8nmkIkFm++6PgO8lLkBDQRNpLamAQgAz5qAZBAFqJoFLTYeKHqy149J BtI8Oh4Ywktc1ExLuZDP7KPjLKGJv5ebMHblU579BiSMgj35Bw4H7V5zzgB2DzklLG61ZAjN d6uFEdFNLtf+2/QqjVqqZjlXfCIlNeq+2U002q1SPzLniX9xm4uHUfL3dZqgOkAWa4fB/X1W mMcXMQX+Npwv9plEJOLdd1J6/XtwsUmnJnkicDiuyb7G8v4fPDJtc0m2sQIdXSL71VIHbme5 w8p8OYN41q0vqefBaMp0PnppG/K32Xa9/zW5fTKMcXxcCFZH7Ww2tpnFqZe0zhrL9UjAfQsg Xurujk0OvEFhhkQonVRXUYmLTM0EXQARAQABiQE8BBgBCgAmAhsMFiEE7xG3phZ0Plgk2BDp gz007xx2oPcFAlqgJ40FCRC91+cACgkQgz007xx2oPfRiwf9H9BNITXs2wLFjrej7wV8XoCO 5z3iN4TTeKz/2XA0CQr7OjkqbEkllnlGvywJOsCsrficHGL+eXk7tWXf8LMm0QOA1pEgA7oN ynGp7O65WG4kN93j9PFA/0k+nkqWtztuw3KBApSqytEBaaqwdeOG5mCWYawAjpSII2Bo+r9I ghH9miMgAsT044OPj3QMKSZAzTEzHekEuYa/AZqfFxLFE27WdDZpEqzvQ3uaIDbYx5HbT+xt LJJczpENdiTwyvHN4PwNSfWacyv1TA7WM2Qusgs5OVRwaJIQypvoGRl0YawaHHgxpLgs/x3r 2IqmnTXThea+Wx/iYSrPFFv4rEbS/w==
Message-ID: <8fdbe7df-872c-57da-a79e-e51ec0ba6553@inet.tu-berlin.de>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 11:19:14 -0400
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.4.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <5D3722DF.8070000@erg.abdn.ac.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Language: en-US
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/taps/RPjpDH6o2E60i6Qh5LtGueDTFzU>
Subject: Re: [Taps] How to handle Protocol stacks that are not equivalent
X-BeenThere: taps@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "IETF Transport Services \(TAPS\) Working Group" <taps.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/taps>, <mailto:taps-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/taps/>
List-Post: <mailto:taps@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:taps-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/taps>, <mailto:taps-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 15:19:28 -0000

Hi,

> On 23/07/2019, 10:31, Tommy Pauly wrote:
>> […] if you don't require reliability, then a UDP protocol stack is
>> equivalent to a message protocol over TCP. If you do require
>> reliability, then those aren't equivalent.

Another important difference between TCP and UDP are Message Boundaries.
So in some cases, TCP + Framer may be equivalent to UDP.

We probably don't want to put that in the Architecture draft, but a
Framer can essentially provide the "Message boundaries" property, thus,
making TCP equivalent to UDP if Message boundaries are required, right?

Maybe that's something for Implementation draft? But the application may
also want to know about the possibility to essentially use TCP or UDP
without having to change (much)? Thinking about DNS, even if there may
be more stuff to consider here, such as the EDNS0 features Ted Hardie
mentioned.

Best,
Theresa

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email