Re: [Taps] MTU / equivalent at the transport layer

Gorry Fairhurst <gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk> Wed, 07 December 2016 16:25 UTC

Return-Path: <gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk>
X-Original-To: taps@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: taps@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D622D12950B for <taps@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 7 Dec 2016 08:25:23 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -7.096
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-2.896] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GNyRkNspgGOk for <taps@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 7 Dec 2016 08:25:21 -0800 (PST)
Received: from pegasus.erg.abdn.ac.uk (pegasus.erg.abdn.ac.uk [139.133.204.173]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46EB7129F6B for <taps@ietf.org>; Wed, 7 Dec 2016 08:24:51 -0800 (PST)
Received: from dhcp-207-163.erg.abdn.ac.uk (unknown [IPv6:2001:630:241:207:cb5:2a3f:f95e:4536]) by pegasus.erg.abdn.ac.uk (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9A7BB1B001AA; Wed, 7 Dec 2016 18:22:58 +0000 (GMT)
References: <5F2E34E4-7D32-4BDB-B762-2ADB7994672B@ifi.uio.no>
To: Michael Welzl <michawe@ifi.uio.no>, taps WG <taps@ietf.org>
From: Gorry Fairhurst <gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk>
Organization: The University of Aberdeen is a charity registered in Scotland, No SC013683.
Message-ID: <a0b71066-a26b-7013-25c7-35248db0aea5@erg.abdn.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2016 16:24:46 +0000
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.3.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <5F2E34E4-7D32-4BDB-B762-2ADB7994672B@ifi.uio.no>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/taps/cXhGmNLtduquYAKofNX0VbTfKck>
Subject: Re: [Taps] MTU / equivalent at the transport layer
X-BeenThere: taps@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17
Precedence: list
Reply-To: gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk
List-Id: Discussions on Transport Services <taps.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/taps>, <mailto:taps-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/taps/>
List-Post: <mailto:taps@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:taps-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/taps>, <mailto:taps-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2016 16:25:24 -0000

Not quoite answering this question, but for DCCP this is clearly also a 
transport understanding of the maxmium datagram size, as in RFC 4340:

"A DCCP implementation MUST maintain the maximum packet size (MPS) 
allowed for each active DCCP session."
and
"The MPS reported to the application SHOULD be influenced by the size 
expected to be required for DCCP headers and options."

Gorry

On 07/12/2016 14:54, Michael Welzl wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I have a problem with one particular primitive, or lack of it, in UDP, UDP-Lite and SCTP. It's something I just don't get.
>
> Consider this text from draft-fairhurst-taps-transports-usage-udp:
>
> "GET_INTERFACE_MTU:  The GET_INTERFACE_MTU function a network-layer
>       function that indicates the largest unfragmented IP packet that
>       may be sent."
>
> Indeed, this is a network-layer function. It's about the interface, not about UDP. Does that mean that, to decide how many bytes fit in the payload of a packet, the programmer needs to know if it's IPv4 or IPv6, with or without options, and do the calculation?
> If so, isn't it extremely odd that UDP doesn't offer a primitive that provides a more useful number: the available space in its payload, in bytes?
>
> I also have the same question for SCTP.  For TCP, it's obvious that the application shouldn't bother, but not for UDP or SCTP.
> At the last meeting, knowing the MTU was mentioned as one of the needs that latency-critical protocols have. I understand that - but I didn't include this primitive in the last version of the usage draft because it is a network-layer primitive... now I don't know how to approach this.
>
> Thoughts? Suggestions?
>
> Cheers,
> Michael
>
> _______________________________________________
> Taps mailing list
> Taps@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/taps
>