Re: [tcpm] More motivating scenarios for tcpm-ack-pull

"Scheffenegger, Richard" <rs.ietf@gmx.at> Tue, 10 December 2019 13:42 UTC

Return-Path: <rs.ietf@gmx.at>
X-Original-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 035C0120098 for <tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 05:42:14 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.599
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gmx.net
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gJznOlRuFtaD for <tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 05:42:12 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D1807120018 for <tcpm@ietf.org>; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 05:42:11 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1575985326; bh=HzdEcQoOADw7bh5kneNRV1sA7Q6sY1wSu81950IzqSU=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=j2FhKwFeIqgS5hAiXPci8Pzo6oKreAFoUnWqLxyN/CsELUQmuHlzmjG5ikEnq27E2 Y01+eCSilB+vncjvOBrP20HqgqV2CM8xnhZgUaK2+BZrt0n0G01geDWviRyKRWakhH ECwvKjneqOr/amfhsHKm2gPQ+4yMfqJ3NdYB79fI=
X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c
Received: from [192.168.233.108] ([185.236.167.136]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx104 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1M2wGi-1ibMJA0ybc-003JjM; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 14:36:56 +0100
To: Carles Gomez Montenegro <carlesgo@entel.upc.edu>
Cc: Jon Crowcroft <jon.crowcroft@cl.cam.ac.uk>, tcpm IETF list <tcpm@ietf.org>
References: <3326ed99-b077-592b-7913-aeb2286912c4@bobbriscoe.net> <13486113479ebcb344247daedda10467.squirrel@webmail.entel.upc.edu> <CAEeTejJC4KLbjLNWmVxPXwDtrC=rjrcOsVnwjEym2uEhJZq7cw@mail.gmail.com> <3f4d3d94-24a8-4ed8-a752-ae5242907d43@gmx.at> <ef6c55535a860b37056cd014ad178416.squirrel@webmail.entel.upc.edu>
From: "Scheffenegger, Richard" <rs.ietf@gmx.at>
Message-ID: <db2a849d-a26f-d741-a039-1622c478ee50@gmx.at>
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 14:37:04 +0100
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <ef6c55535a860b37056cd014ad178416.squirrel@webmail.entel.upc.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:Zv4RDjOEpc5bioOaN2DCIZCOcMjrtKw6VN8Rr4LmCSkQq89ALgV d2tzxc0OTkGPlH5pN4XuTVox1GMVl4C0je7GGVQzRvpcMOXOcPuGqrJYVuJCM4EIJ0ofvh5 nTzoRXMI4+AxM7Gy3PGyhO1Y1HqnOQ1sggwMyGLqWN0V5hRyOJb7+DshuHEHSyEBYwNsry+ 7OMww3sX4vhd/nB+IToYg==
X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:a2TikAHjlHM=:52RnYzRYQ0AXhVnOrvaHfQ PdCtgO7XiRF3j0iKK5SXyPT0DlG19KWnrJ9Ts5E8uTrf+2+eOglhOR+RoV34nKVRYZA8EtZG3 F7hBmWnG73AH7C7rrdZTdmUUD24qqKKHYf1i/czLjvhQjXBiByzOSXRmydUaP9ji6JPRqhTRR 9xRiPZNeWUwThsv2QfBcB3HceHt5UpATudVhYh+nHotEOD3L8HZdi6kBeaoV1et3D9zlqHJhA EeXF00xv513L2pkTdtj3s1voX43ckTFwxiYe7Uhfom8ZZqyN6HQsVuFzS8W+QVpcj9NHJJRD6 aKzLU0yxpB8YK7ZRsyNewLPs2EBbYVUDqR2l9FfQOWgsJiD4FPrb5ZJ4FV/8LSYVhxpc+iQI1 OWsE54xxx7yDNkwAbxtOKx9L++hKLm2M/M6X/gxUWZImnfLrCFVo26g7x3zaqdWIq5xhGM+q4 dDwAh3Lh2nCgI69CSGx3DKexlgD2weoXyx/lIUmLHs6vRlbdjsKud41voQ8U3YlLnBtPdl2vT h96tceSv9Fr9AcdXBeNitJ7VuXM6d16DHZWlHw7TEphF/8SgwFNWOSirgC0FKfh3MLziOaB8Z SWpy6fLcLyUffa5cl6gneLetkPConef328QM0jUsRgiNFQSq0y+A7COWPc/QII/jUEhv3lZMf dS67WythcTY61O9PLNdvqgHjYWRXoAYEZ4M7nIioqtLd4QkpmU2897MKy2LvAEdV8E1210qJu LBmaiHWxYzmHgDQ+LwecsVeIH5mfJn0VKEpK3sWeqSPcGTDg+nTCWhQAwvd13eTGk+/EWTlc/ 6JvfYaF61LEodB1lMIJ2YPCD3crMjv4v3djhPYdil1V0VkH4QXn5R4uzvFDHJCxMzyD3DT5aE XPulqqEFqP4jUwDVk1Kr6iS3D+rEAqbOIpIm5knTpR/bR4KsbltA1vEjMrXhcEmPal3QQdk1n bWnzl0xO/6twjtnAH5HaUMcmVwD9Bb1VXvjnDRuiR3ETRFLImmL+4bo7X05C/aVwZmHPvhzc/ +Xnp2Gj/4hw6uAMYjSQS5CsOKgurzbyBnr6dnNAmAvUBlkcPfFc0Tdd5wm1EPZND1eXoawuPx XK6HpZJuLsc7HQNsE5cbJMvQ/wrmbTqhxHNuAA3xk4H0X7vM3ULGtChjs4TGHIzQWTfuLhj8A V5C9/D+k8dV342B8VN0Q2lIz7S1M3sUonSvDUddwDZe6qeOQs/mcyEbgSw9K6pBYEJoZ3vAzG 8bI+aEdjODO5F+Dj/mvfrJ98ZJ8QBkS7eQxo6Vg==
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tcpm/EfwAN6tm5D60SoNqO_VwTGelOkk>
Subject: Re: [tcpm] More motivating scenarios for tcpm-ack-pull
X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group <tcpm.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tcpm>, <mailto:tcpm-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tcpm/>
List-Post: <mailto:tcpm@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tcpm-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcpm>, <mailto:tcpm-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 13:42:14 -0000

I believe your list here misses the AckCC option of RFC5690 (which is
only informational, not even experimental). Am Ack Ratio option of 1
followed by a an Ack Ratio of n could serve the same purpose...

Note that there have been multiple investigations showing good
traversability of new options across middleboxes nowadays.

Best regards,
    Richard


Am 07.12.2019 um 12:30 schrieb Carles Gomez Montenegro:
> ess how the patch you mention offers a way
> to trigger immediate ACKs, and the related context and benefits.
>
> Perhaps a combination or (re)use of existing TCP header fields (e.g.
> CWR/PSH as per your suggestion below, or the Urgent pointer as suggested
> earlier by Bob) could be a way to enable triggering immediate ACKs.
>
> A concern with these techniques is that they are limited to some extent.
> For example, some applications produce small segments with the PSH flag
> set and benefit from Delayed ACKs (e.g. to piggyback ACKs and replies). In
> those cases, even regardless of the CWR flag, triggering immediate ACKs
> will avoid achieving performance benefits of Delayed ACKs.
>
> In contrast, a dedicated resource (e.g. a TCP header reserved bit, as we
> propose in the draft) will not suffer such limitations. However, that
> resource needs to be allocated.
>
> Summarizing, there may be two approaches to enable ACK Pull:
>
> 1.- Overloading semantics of existing TCP header fields.
> 2.- Dedicating a resource.
>
> Then the question is, considering pros and cons of both approaches: which
> one do we prefer?
>
> It would be great to hear the WG feedback on the above question!
>
> Thanks,