IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [tcpm] [tsvwg] draft-han-tsvwg-cc

"Scharf, Michael (Nokia - DE/Stuttgart)" <michael.scharf@nokia.com> Sat, 17 March 2018 20:48 UTC

Return-Path: <michael.scharf@nokia.com>
X-Original-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F08512D7F2 for <tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Mar 2018 13:48:03 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.92
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.92 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KnYX1lRUh-Oc for <tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Mar 2018 13:48:01 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from EUR01-HE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-he1eur01on0117.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.0.117]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AFCB11200E5 for <tcpm@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Mar 2018 13:48:00 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-nokia-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=OD7f6XeSorit+eHK0OivePDTJu9eJsdudH8CJa8me3E=; b=K0wigHsFVXbzbY9pQS2x5uytXNzyuS7jyVn/NfcRxd5PmxujCTGScso5IV0SEE5TZnbBnJ34TKsb50N01xBeujkil5KeqEOuMKQ8lp4pk3M8nYV2Bb1x+3tI5CIQ93BworzdN4WS9Kw8TV0J2q/nFM6m9Q19eaMoACMwcQk1phM=
Received: from AM5PR0701MB2547.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.173.92.15) by AM5PR0701MB2739.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.173.93.141) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.609.6; Sat, 17 Mar 2018 20:47:57 +0000
Received: from AM5PR0701MB2547.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::4935:9288:dcd6:7db0]) by AM5PR0701MB2547.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::4935:9288:dcd6:7db0%5]) with mapi id 15.20.0609.007; Sat, 17 Mar 2018 20:47:57 +0000
From: "Scharf, Michael (Nokia - DE/Stuttgart)" <michael.scharf@nokia.com>
To: Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>, "Eggert, Lars" <lars@netapp.com>
CC: Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>, "tcpm@ietf.org" <tcpm@ietf.org>, Yingzhen Qu <yingzhen.qu@huawei.com>
Thread-Topic: [tcpm] [tsvwg] draft-han-tsvwg-cc
Thread-Index: AQHTvNuRsY1NVnC/X06wq/ofyfzol6PSzbEQgAA+4ICAAPqEgIAA26KAgAAEGBA=
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2018 20:47:56 +0000
Message-ID: <AM5PR0701MB254771E51FE7BCA956E72BF093D60@AM5PR0701MB2547.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <20180316040208.GA9492@faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <VI1PR0701MB255800F95712D680DECC977C93D70@VI1PR0701MB2558.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <20180316162338.GD18047@faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <A3FD15EF-F73F-4CB6-B67F-ECBC7A398A82@netapp.com> <20180317202623.GB26661@faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
In-Reply-To: <20180317202623.GB26661@faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
Accept-Language: en-US, de-DE
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-originating-ip: [92.203.232.179]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; AM5PR0701MB2739; 7:Skw21C+Z+AtwJURYdhxIU3+QqDEGYVVZRQC0H5QmbqTCx/BYheulAJ3XE6cyPqm1FMSKgeT+x8caiBgB8gFTU0N1/6rCXt7PHCEjNx3/8YzCKGq3vYZg9ns3q5xb39WYTNQ3M/FVDwMfrsKfHziSif0/cQqsUPRbxvfoV+4OAO0+ut2CDP+uSu696ZtSGehEeqRJV/s1K5i7O6LmgB5iEnMmcQarxUASyNBKpENAqwC3fHW/8dVhqI04mOj0vinR
x-ms-exchange-antispam-srfa-diagnostics: SOS;
x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 83ae5bdb-52be-4016-69cd-08d58c485d1c
x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(7020095)(4652020)(48565401081)(5600026)(4604075)(3008032)(4534165)(4627221)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(2017052603328)(7193020); SRVR:AM5PR0701MB2739;
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM5PR0701MB2739:
authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=michael.scharf@nokia.com;
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <AM5PR0701MB2739C8E8228F4DE15B95E89593D60@AM5PR0701MB2739.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(244540007438412)(50582790962513)(82608151540597);
x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(6040522)(2401047)(8121501046)(5005006)(10201501046)(3231221)(11241501184)(806099)(944501300)(52105095)(3002001)(93006095)(93001095)(6055026)(6041310)(20161123558120)(20161123562045)(20161123564045)(201703131423095)(201702281528075)(20161123555045)(201703061421075)(201703061406153)(20161123560045)(6072148)(201708071742011); SRVR:AM5PR0701MB2739; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:AM5PR0701MB2739;
x-forefront-prvs: 06141B80DC
x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(396003)(39860400002)(346002)(376002)(39380400002)(366004)(199004)(189003)(13464003)(66066001)(5660300001)(14454004)(9686003)(68736007)(55016002)(86362001)(93886005)(316002)(305945005)(8676002)(6436002)(74316002)(6246003)(5250100002)(8936002)(4326008)(97736004)(2906002)(53936002)(54906003)(3846002)(478600001)(3280700002)(99286004)(76176011)(7696005)(2900100001)(6116002)(53546011)(186003)(2950100002)(7736002)(3660700001)(6506007)(102836004)(33656002)(229853002)(110136005)(25786009)(26005)(81166006)(81156014)(105586002)(106356001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:AM5PR0701MB2739; H:AM5PR0701MB2547.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en;
received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: nokia.com does not designate permitted sender hosts)
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: dIvfi+zRmOkJ1jBIUXzDmSxhnTtQ7LUysh9oZsYNAPHrlNxAu2O6zjtd30C6Ua7pue7JjIPE07/xUDv7nBgEUeA+h9rPdlxB08Cj2Lhp3oB8PIxE4d4go9x9uqZllQCZjUv1rCrTGKAzeWHRyrhAWIXy3OajEBYfR+EUyX22pj6SYqJ8TgKfEuNhtoW61sLhjKxzeyR2m6IZHtviMPQJafaVsr7uFn14JtOD7InYq/FWAZqCUhKA32VuH/mL/kYQ5XRsRCxRuPV0ma4XCrKdd9p65kIyPmnoBf0XDTVr9vulNnH6wMDFk2ryI7k0E5DnWo1Nqx0xzZ0ienJnujkAMx/eBxYBDP8qE6VZ3RljgAhKeaqSmbbIu0UpBfF0gcLE
spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99
spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: nokia.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 83ae5bdb-52be-4016-69cd-08d58c485d1c
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 17 Mar 2018 20:47:56.9419 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM5PR0701MB2739
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tcpm/Soe73Gwb3PDio9snGxsNdPfyYGY>
Subject: Re: [tcpm] [tsvwg] draft-han-tsvwg-cc
X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group <tcpm.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tcpm>, <mailto:tcpm-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tcpm/>
List-Post: <mailto:tcpm@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tcpm-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcpm>, <mailto:tcpm-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2018 20:48:03 -0000

Resource guarantees and admission control will in many cases also be needed below IP, e.g., if there are shared resources (e.g., Ethernet switches or Wifi meshes). If there are shared resources below IP, resource reservation at IP layer will not be sufficient for this proposed congestion control.

So, the assumptions on the network architecture and its functionality are not limited to the IP layer only. This needs to be made explicit in the document.

Michael


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Toerless Eckert [mailto:tte@cs.fau.de]
> Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2018 9:26 PM
> To: Eggert, Lars <lars@netapp.com>
> Cc: Scharf, Michael (Nokia - DE/Stuttgart) <michael.scharf@nokia.com>;
> Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>; tcpm@ietf.org; Yingzhen Qu
> <yingzhen.qu@huawei.com>
> Subject: Re: [tcpm] [tsvwg] draft-han-tsvwg-cc
> 
> Thanks, Lars
> 
> Maybe please read my reply to Michael where i was trying to explain that this
> is not intended for Internet/BE, but for PHBs where admsision control and
> upspeeding are feasible - and support TCP there.
> 
> Cheers
>     Toerless
> 
> On Sat, Mar 17, 2018 at 07:20:17AM +0000, Eggert, Lars wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I tried to write up a detailed reply, but I stopped myself. Here is the meta-
> argument:
> >
> > Essentially, there seems to be an underlying desire here - for whatever
> reason - to change the Internet to an architecture that has admission control,
> and discuss how transport protocols should change in response to that.
> >
> > I don't think such an change to the Internet will happen anytime soon. I
> hence don't think that spending any time on discussing CC for such an
> unlikely future is a very productive use of our time in the IETF.
> >
> > Lars

v2.46.0 | Report a Bug | By Email | System Status