Re: [Teep] [EXT] Re: Call for adoption

Mingliang Pei <Mingliang_Pei@symantec.com> Thu, 10 May 2018 02:51 UTC

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From: Mingliang Pei <Mingliang_Pei@symantec.com>
To: Nicolae Paladi <n.paladi@gmail.com>
CC: Dave Thaler <dthaler@microsoft.com>, "Wheeler, David M" <david.m.wheeler@intel.com>, "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" <ncamwing@cisco.com>, "teep@ietf.org" <teep@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Teep] [EXT] Re: Call for adoption
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Subject: Re: [Teep] [EXT] Re: Call for adoption
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Hi Nicolae,

Thank you very much for your comments. Sorry for delayed reply. Please see my comments inline.

Best,

Ming

From: Nicolae Paladi <n.paladi@gmail.com>
Date: Friday, May 4, 2018 at 2:35 AM
To: Mingliang Pei <Mingliang_Pei@symantec.com>
Cc: Dave Thaler <dthaler@microsoft.com>, "Wheeler, David M" <david.m.wheeler@intel.com>, "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" <ncamwing@cisco.com>, "teep@ietf.org" <teep@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Teep] [EXT] Re: Call for adoption

Hello,

I have read through the 06 OTrP document; besides a list of miscellaneous omissions and minor misses (that can be addressed later), several points caught my eye:

1. In §5.2 the acronym “AIK” from  "TEE SP anonymous key (AIK)” reads very similar to the concept of an “Attestation Identity Key”  (e.g. from [1]).
Is that the purpose? If yes, the key and its role should be introduced, otherwise a different acronym could be used.

Ming: it is different. The TAM will still know a device’s identity basing on TEE key and we introduced AIK to make the application itself no need to access TEE device key. We were aware of DAA but didn’t make it a requirement to use.

2. In §6.3.1 the draft mentions that “It is important to ensure a legitimate OTrP Agent is installed”.
However, it is not clear what a “legitimate” agent is and how one can ensure that a “legitimate” agent installed.
Given that the agent runs in the REE where the applications are by definition un-trusted (as per 3.1), this paragraph leads to a dead end.
What is the relation between a “legitimate” application and a “trusted” application?

Ming: “trusted” application refers to those running in TEE side. You are right, an OTrP Agent cannot be always trusted. We recommend that it is installed as a “system” app that has better protection than a user installed app. If an OTrP agent applicaton is compromised, it cannot steal anything because data is encrypted end-to-end, and TAM will detect it. One threat is that it may cause Denial-of-service to TA management requests. Thanks for your comment; we can elaborate this in “Security Consideration” section. How do you think?

3. §6.3.2 states twice (duplication) that only one OTrP agent is expected.
However, given that “a user can dynamically download and install an OTrP Agent on demand” (as per §6.3.1), it is unclear what this expectation is based on.
Moreover, the interaction is multiple OTrP agents on the platform is not discussed.

Ming: the OTrP assumes that only one active TEE is installed in a device, see Section 12 and 7.8 etc. You raised a good point on what if a user downloads multiple OTrP agent. It was expected that one “system” OTrP agent is used that associates with the underlying TEE. Supporting multiple different OTrP agents are out of scope for the spec. The focus is on the “messaging protocol” that are exchanged. How an OTrP agent is installed and interact with TEE are left out for implementations. We will add clarification about this. Thanks again for your questions here.

Best regards,
Nicolae

====

[1] Ernie Brickell, Jan Camenisch, and Liqun Chen. 2004. Direct anonymous attestation. In Proceedings of the 11th ACM conference on Computer and communications security (CCS '04). ACM, New York, NY, USA, 132-145. DOI=http://dx.doi.org/10.1145/1030083.1030103<https://clicktime.symantec.com/a/1/FxLZJM03ASlro3ApjZyFHa5jrFqUjyGpGhjI8XOC1X0=?d=m6C10soKZjsw33Z3WzAqLgXYspcBsudM2nUIfa1o0mmI03HqQ3KmRq1gQ2LCFHBvg6I_OCTwg9HEo-dSm9GWB1bai4z4g8oPYU-p9tvCtkLwnCy4XjNiYWHbl4hDBH1XBYV8wONzxnXr3_pxkjPJv8WkoTMlSt9kJV42Y2m5Y6EcNmMOWivqcLhKm0lFJ44NGD-R9LhdGU01v3MaL4Q2vQLBoHZf9oeauDDsrxmN00kEuGowOuW_wVcXsjWfKOzsR_RAvXEzRIDUUhQn-vVpxQrjYSu1Mfi_s0pTQZEqHMstUlVcOKHfXLRAdqdDiEhKKMxBfiUAe5Kc56UJbDPDC85eOx4MiH5B1iBb3v3X8Itd_-TGNkGS8SbbGdgcn-c%3D&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdx.doi.org%2F10.1145%2F1030083.1030103>


On 02 May 2018, at 20:23, Mingliang Pei <Mingliang_Pei@symantec.com<mailto:Mingliang_Pei@symantec.com>> wrote:

Thanks Dave T, that is correct.

Hi Dave W, yes, I can confirm that it is exactly the same version as v06 OTrP except a few typo fixes. The plan is to rename the “adopted” version v06 first to WG named draft, and we work on revision from there with full continuity.

Thanks,

Ming

From: Dave Thaler <dthaler@microsoft.com<mailto:dthaler@microsoft.com>>
Date: Wednesday, May 2, 2018 at 10:13 AM
To: "Wheeler, David M" <david.m.wheeler@intel.com<mailto:david.m.wheeler@intel.com>>, Mingliang Pei <Mingliang_Pei@symantec.com<mailto:Mingliang_Pei@symantec.com>>, "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" <ncamwing@cisco.com<mailto:ncamwing@cisco.com>>, "teep@ietf.org<mailto:teep@ietf.org>" <teep@ietf.org<mailto:teep@ietf.org>>
Subject: RE: [Teep] [EXT] Re: Call for adoption

You can see the diffs at

I see that a number of typos were fixed, but there were no substantial differences.

Dave

From: TEEP <teep-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:teep-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behalf Of Wheeler, David M
Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2018 7:14 AM
To: Mingliang Pei <Mingliang_Pei@symantec.com<mailto:Mingliang_Pei@symantec.com>>; Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing) <ncamwing@cisco.com<mailto:ncamwing@cisco.com>>; teep@ietf.org<mailto:teep@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Teep] [EXT] Re: Call for adoption

Ming,
Can you just confirm that there are NO DIFFERENCES between the last released version and the 06 OTrP document?
If there are differences, can you give a short summary so I know where to look?
Much appreciated,
Dave Wheeler


From: TEEP [mailto:teep-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mingliang Pei
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2018 10:46 AM
To: Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing) <ncamwing@cisco.com<mailto:ncamwing@cisco.com>>; teep@ietf.org<mailto:teep@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Teep] [EXT] Re: Call for adoption

Thank you Nancy, Dave and all for your support, comments and suggestions.

Yes, I will rename the draft to “draft-ietf-teep-opentrustprotocol” and resubmit it very soon.

Thanks, again,

Ming

From: TEEP <teep-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:teep-bounces@ietf.org>> on behalf of "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" <ncamwing@cisco.com<mailto:ncamwing@cisco.com>>
Date: Thursday, April 26, 2018 at 8:58 AM
To: "teep@ietf.org<mailto:teep@ietf.org>" <teep@ietf.org<mailto:teep@ietf.org>>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [Teep] Call for adoption

Hearing (or reading) no strong objections, “draft-pei-opentrustprotocol” is adopted by the WG.

A few comments have already been provided that can be addressed in subsequent versions some can also be clarified in the architecture draft.

Ming: when you get a chance, please submit the draft with the name:  draft-ietf-teep-opentrustprotocol

Your chairs, Dave and Nancy

From: "ncamwing@cisco.com<mailto:ncamwing@cisco.com>" <ncamwing@cisco.com<mailto:ncamwing@cisco.com>>
Date: Monday, April 2, 2018 at 11:07 AM
To: "teep@ietf.org<mailto:teep@ietf.org>" <teep@ietf.org<mailto:teep@ietf.org>>
Subject: Call for adoption

All,

There was strong interest and consensus at the TEEP f2f IETF 101 meeting in London for adopting
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-pei-opentrustprotocol/<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2Fa%2F1%2FgRKJSsq7kQhfqIKwz5wHUYr68TvGP5gAqpJNYBP-b7k%3D%3Fd%3D8WYzqysvQkd-X_pG-TDgQWMOhCT_hZ1FSVct6-8Ei0YXDodJ-BlC1HRZVDivUH6gtXKkOaBplQ4cm5LXvKuOoc75nlsRDpZ0rTVUq3fI7jVSXjtiB2k5l62ztuPK_5u9S0O3mA7XFXurjMVspCv9uWGRny0TCxWJTwmktVrcQ-LZsoLDB69BN4KytF_Po_2Z2uln01QFKhgSZXUOR-YCo0fpFWZNBDKlXao5KGMKu-LMjD9wwhzQSXXsEgOk-r_0Vzw4CArYfYfPSqkGXkT1bJegLFfBHZZ6RGWMovT3TJ8Z2EohP6RQgIWuG16Z_L_WaaiTJKC75JKHUnWLAF4IObMDfaL4frUNdI7SaFJEk1Nym6ab%26u%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fdatatracker.ietf.org%252Fdoc%252Fdraft-pei-opentrustprotocol%252F&data=02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7C7a6910317f434c0cf7e508d5b036f02f%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C1%7C636608672364767599&sdata=4N1Xkn78OMBQeskfI6i%2FOe4R37Hw%2BcOELBqt06w6x%2FY%3D&reserved=0>  as a draft protocol.

This is a call for adoption as a working group draft .  If you have any concerns or objections please respond
by April 16th.

Warm regards, Nancy
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