[TICTOC] draft minutes for ietf73 tictoc meeting

Folks,

Here are draft minutes from Minneapolis. Feel free to provide comments
and corrections.

Regards,
Karen

IETF TICTOC Working Group Meeting 
Monday, November 17, 2008, 1520-1720

The jabber log can be found at:
http://jabber.ietf.org/logs/tictoc/2008-11-17.txt

The meeting was called to order by co-chairs Yaakov Stein and Stewart
Bryant.  Karen O'Donoghue took the minutes. There was no volunteer to
act as jabber  scribe; however, Kurtis Linquist did agree to monitor the
room and provide  any comments from remote attendees. The blue sheets
were distributed, and the  agenda was presented with no additions.  

Status Update, Yaakov Stein
===========================
Slides: tictoc-2

Yaakov led a discussion on the status of the current working group work
items  and documents.

The problem statement document is complete and ready to be progressed.
Given  that Stewart and Yaakov are the document authors, Mark Townsley
asked Karen  O'Donoghue to act as the document shepherd for this
document. 

The requirements draft has not had sufficient input to date. The telecom
portions have matured, but the remaining application areas are lacking.
There  was some discussion of and support for splitting the requirements
document  into two pieces in order to allow the more mature portions to
progress.  However, Karen expressed a concern that this would segment
the work too much  and move it away from the general next generation
time synchronization  solution. Kurtis asked why the material from the
interim had not been  captured. Silvana pointed out that the table had
changed significantly during  the Dublin meeting. Greg Dowd volunteered
to help map the Paris notes back  into the document. The chairs proposed
to cutoff requirements input by the  next IETF meeting. 

Discussion of the status of the architecture draft was deferred to later
on  the agenda. 

The final document is the RAN Requirements document. There is
significant  overlap between this document and the general requirements
document. The  authors of this document were asked to work with Silvana
to help fold that  material into the general requirements document. 

Yaakov raised the issue of the working group charter item to develope
extensions to NTPv4 as necessary for time and frequency distribution,
with  primary focus on the public Internet. Karen raised a concern that
this wasn't  the right question, and Greg Dowd pointed out that this may
or may not be  extensions to NTPv4. Kurtis pointed out that this is the
IETF, and the  Internet is the area we should be specifically focusing
on. Greg indicated  that there is an overwhelming feeling that these
protocols already work well  for the Internet, and we haven't done a gap
analysis to show where they don't  work. Doug Arnold, Greg Dowd, Kurtis
Linquist, Karen O'Donoghue, and Juankui  (John) Zhao volunteered to work
on an ntp-ng design team. It was agreed that  the design team would
initially identify requirements and gaps to help  quantify the next
steps for ntp. 

Progress on the requirements draft, Silvana Rodriguez
=====================================================
Document:  draft-rodrigues-lindqvist-tictoc-req-01.txt
Slides:  tictoc-1

Silvana produced a short summary of the requirements document status,
but she  pointed out that all of her points had already been covered in
the previous  discussion on the status of the working group efforts. 

Implementation of on-path support, Jean Loup Ferrant
====================================================
Slides:  tictoc-0

Jean-Loup Ferrant provided a discussion highlighting some of the issues
associated with identification, measurement, and management of on-path
support. How do we discover transparent clocks? Do time and frequency
take  the same path? The conclusion of the presentation is that there is
significant work to be done in this area. 

Architecture draft, Yakkov Stein
================================
Document:  draft-stein-tictoc-modules-02.txt
No slides. 

Yaakov brought up the topic of how to make progress on the architecture
draft. This evolved into a general discussion on how to establish and
maintain momentum for the working group as a whole. The possibility of
participating in the large interim meeting planned for January 2009 in
Malta  was raised, but virtually no one was in favor of participating.
Instead, it  was decided to try regular conference calls to keep the
work progressing.  Stewart and Karen will work logistics off line.
(Subsequent discussions after  the meeting resulted in a plan to have a
first call on Monday, December 1, at  1700 UTC (1200 EST, 0900 PST))

Possible Topics for IRTF Research Group, Yaakov Stein
=====================================================
Slides:  tictoc-3

Yaakov provided a presentation on possible IRTF topics related to time
and  frequency. During the initial chartering of the TICTOC WG, it was
felt that  there were a number of topics that merited further discussion
in the  community. However, these topics were not mature enough for
standardization.  One possible mechanism to help mature the topics and
solidify community  consensus would be the establishment of an Internet
Research Task Force  research group on time and frequency. Yaakov
proposed some possible topics  and solicited others from the attendees.
Possible topics include:  PDV and  clock recovery performance, new
timing distribution topologies, security, new  applications enabled by
precise time. This discussion is still in the  preliminary stages. In
fact, the goals and non-goals appear to conflict. The  next step is to
talk to Aaron and determine if this is worth pursuing.  Working group
members are encouraged to think about what technical topics  would
benefit from this type of activity and send them to the list. 

The meeting was adjourned at 1700. However, there was a subsequent
ad-hoc  discussion of the requirements document following the NTP WG at
1800. This  discussion focused on the specific information in the
requirements table for  various applications. This discussion adjourned
at 1900. 
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