Re: [TLS] draft-rhrd (Was: Re: Update on TLS 1.3 Middlebox Issues)

Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> Mon, 09 October 2017 17:33 UTC

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To: "Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL" <uri@ll.mit.edu>
Cc: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>, Transport Layer Surveillance WG <tls@ietf.org>
References: <m2shetiafc.wl-randy@psg.com> <CABcZeBPA885itU+O-X+ri_P7Zxqbs1qXUmQFbE9Fc3h5YQfSMw@mail.gmail.com> <1854f9e7-7264-bd1a-9ae4-0407b682b731@cs.tcd.ie> <C679B34E-613F-4C2B-AF5E-9C08FD344DB2@ll.mit.edu>
From: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
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Subject: Re: [TLS] draft-rhrd (Was: Re: Update on TLS 1.3 Middlebox Issues)
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I did a bit of an update to [1].

As before PRs are welcome and I (still) wonder if the
WG would benefit from documenting bits of this stuff
as a work item to save time and repetition in future.

S.

[1] https://github.com/sftcd/tinfoil

On 08/10/17 23:35, Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL wrote:
> +1 to Stephen.
> 
> Regards,
> Uri
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 8, 2017, at 18:34, Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>; wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 08/10/17 23:22, Eric Rescorla wrote:
>>> You seem to be responding to some other thread. 
>>
>> Yep. I changed the subject line.
>>
>> Randy's substantive message however is crystal clear. And is
>> one that WG participants ought take to heart IMO. Pretending
>> that some changes to TLS would magically be limited in scope
>> to so-called "data centres" is BS. I'm really really puzzled
>> that some otherwise sensible folks appear unable to see that.
>>
>> S
>>
>>
>>> As both Adam Langley and I
>>> mentioned, none of the changes that anyone is investigating for reducing
>>> middlebox-induced breakage affect the cryptographic properties of TLS.
>>>
>>> -Ekr
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Sun, Oct 8, 2017 at 2:42 PM, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>; wrote:
>>>>
>>>> there are a lot of us lurkers out here a bit horrified watching this wg
>>>> go off the rails.
>>>>
>>>> it would help if vendors of devices which break privacy would stop
>>>> speaking for 'datacenters' and let datacenters speak for themselves.  i
>>>> have not seen any doing so.  my $dayjob has >10 medium sized datacenters
>>>> serving everything from banks to telcos to scaled cloud services.  i can
>>>> not find folk in our datacenter groups who see a need to break e2e
>>>> encryption.
>>>>
>>>> if the interception proposals ensured that user is notified and able to
>>>> prevent session interception, then i would believe this.  but if they do
>>>> not, then let's face it, this is all about selling surveillance gear to
>>>> snooping enterprises and repressive regiemes where people with guns take
>>>> you away at 3am because your session was decoded.
>>>>
>>>> can we please provide real end to end privacy or call this wg something
>>>> else?
>>>>
>>>> randy
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
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