Re: [TLS] I-D on TLS authentication with VC

Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> Fri, 05 April 2024 12:14 UTC

Return-Path: <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
X-Original-To: tls@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tls@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80D69C14F5F6 for <tls@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 5 Apr 2024 05:14:15 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.998
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=cs.tcd.ie
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3w7J36xHjV99 for <tls@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 5 Apr 2024 05:14:11 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from EUR02-VI1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-vi1eur02on2133.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.241.133]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5F21BC14CE30 for <tls@ietf.org>; Fri, 5 Apr 2024 05:14:11 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=U4AsNVToKtpZ3XbLtqaPoxXbuhatfnbnTRfL8GRomyshaQXrN82HHiT1sfyrZTzQdfvjkynQXzHfD3NuJd9KrahxcSz5zUD6QKwLdXXJGJCzNCuBQo9y2QIGBRXZlNi+lfyh/9zMyg+Ao58vRcdh3IDBGDPucBSDxDNNmSYNa97g1M/SksD8VW77OEEv7/v/7cjMMSmw8Y5JQuXiHvSmiyeRMnCfGRC5Kj7Bp3cZ/WkINKIcHm/gC2zQYUf0BXZkCn58xuKw/UVtuquAorz8zS1/+Y3VU6e+HB2o/B6JtDy0QL1EkeyqGTEfvjk+MyjV/7kNUV8RyBcorDp7Yb/I2w==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=zToCU/ttYCfNJ6R6IaW/0m1dwCviRnR/azCSAVph/Do=; b=VNSoFVKuBrP10xkKWc7SCqlWC0zonqX1alN/u3wZVkomdZKH7sDLGqXpJ5i5RUEmH5NEy1YxdMYhjMdKIH4x0p63JftL7KudPu5A9+6CYcWGT6ohoxSgSNLFygSszHIq7V4axvg2qKW9WX3kTXzGnMUmLmd3c+LaFnjCwdKfFycigNu/UCyd2oDiaBMsMQ5BCfgZTS3pw4/HAEye7WF0jxdwByb4hu9M3HESKyz6VrQHC/BBZnkWA0wibklqTDRe4ukwAxiYWSlSeLrddPn4G28k6XhV/YaG/SBL8O1KmwYSX5+krVR3S6gv6Co4BR4VompU8OXYxYpqwUjxy2HyHg==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=cs.tcd.ie; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=cs.tcd.ie; dkim=pass header.d=cs.tcd.ie; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cs.tcd.ie; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=zToCU/ttYCfNJ6R6IaW/0m1dwCviRnR/azCSAVph/Do=; b=V87tHfM6A73HqsZeoaEWfXdHZJ5I+CcqwcyVnoxA9zn0eVAJhLMUcvWj9fCuBHUkK7EKtF96V91PuTweTSe3P9qG8VF9dNpsVPZgesApR56wGot0ianTLK4fzWayf8uou1heOQmm9ark1nIe34p3i6DhnPHGFyb2EgLMxLU97dLsnHz+pTDCvIs/TTeiPfSgQMXo7vuUobUnIPeSXGe2kT/CJ7mEQAZlyjgRq3WoluzHIfimICE+Tqf5rVFsRBPYr3vXN68LP/RtJz1pl2SaKKT17+xFrdnta/D1YSNIOydH6rlzs0rRznY96loU1FZtNPuv/SM633TxpI3NhNTpcg==
Received: from DB7PR02MB5113.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:10:77::15) by AS8PR02MB6997.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:20b:2e6::20) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.7409.46; Fri, 5 Apr 2024 12:14:07 +0000
Received: from DB7PR02MB5113.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::4421:1ca6:59b4:20c9]) by DB7PR02MB5113.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::4421:1ca6:59b4:20c9%7]) with mapi id 15.20.7409.042; Fri, 5 Apr 2024 12:14:07 +0000
Message-ID: <f183ba4b-6876-4cfc-bb66-4b6894e43fd8@cs.tcd.ie>
Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2024 13:14:05 +0100
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
To: Achim Kraus <achimkraus@gmx.net>, Andrea Vesco <andrea.vesco@linksfoundation.com>, "tls@ietf.org" <tls@ietf.org>
References: <F515427B-EE5A-4514-9787-8BB3F95FC380@linksfoundation.com> <7d194dc8-65b0-4df5-9ef0-410a38af9e1e@cs.tcd.ie> <70c9b9ff-14fa-4b2f-8d90-2b1a0f1ebf15@gmx.net>
Content-Language: en-US
From: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
Autocrypt: addr=stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie; keydata= xjMEY9GzphYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAo6JvjmSbxHdQWPZdvciQYsHhM1NxQBU398Mmimoy4p7N M1N0ZXBoZW4gRmFycmVsbCAoMjU1MTkpIDxzdGVwaGVuLmZhcnJlbGxAY3MudGNkLmllPsKQ BBMWCAA4FiEEMG54R8tZDyZFrDOn5Njp+ZeoM90FAmPRs6YCGwMFCwkIBwIGFQoJCAsCBBYC AwECHgECF4AACgkQ5Njp+ZeoM93bogEA25ElRyX0wwg+kGEN1AoL60MoZfvQZ/VtmXY6IC5j +csBAIBpkL5ySuzJK2zLNZn9qQGht8IaUcA7cvDcLvS2uHUEzjgEY9GzphIKKwYBBAGXVQEF AQEHQILCPWOwW36e8D3pY8GmvvtItIT+A5uV80ist+WokVsQAwEIB8J4BBgWCAAgFiEEMG54 R8tZDyZFrDOn5Njp+ZeoM90FAmPRs6YCGwwACgkQ5Njp+ZeoM92bcAEA8R+8cpqRUIS+SoAN iO05xE6O/wEx8/e88BqzAYki3SoBAOQdwiPX+MQrAxkWD8xxOsdMOAtxYKpkD1n8aPJUw6QJ
In-Reply-To: <70c9b9ff-14fa-4b2f-8d90-2b1a0f1ebf15@gmx.net>
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha256"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------UQeHGHnrWBw1erzTdDbYupcc"
X-ClientProxiedBy: DUZPR01CA0228.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com (2603:10a6:10:4b4::23) To DB7PR02MB5113.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:10:77::15)
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1
X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email
X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: DB7PR02MB5113:EE_|AS8PR02MB6997:EE_
X-MS-Exchange-SharedMailbox-RoutingAgent-Processed: True
X-TCD-Routed-via-EOP: Routed via EOP
X-TCD-ROUTED: Passed-Transport-Routing-Rules
X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck: 1
X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-Relay: 0
X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;
X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: 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
X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:DB7PR02MB5113.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(13230031)(376005)(366007)(1800799015); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102;
X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1
X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0: 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
X-OriginatorOrg: cs.tcd.ie
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: d8244409-ace3-4f02-5e62-08dc5569e426
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DB7PR02MB5113.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Apr 2024 12:14:07.0038 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: d595be8d-b306-45f4-8064-9e5b82fbe52b
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-MailboxType: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-UserPrincipalName: xl7VokHbpFV5uofccACgXdWenjVsjqcUOtJiQZcJCpTDeWF8Uv+IcFk4iDKnZbSh
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AS8PR02MB6997
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/UcRS-BEvNea50KJn7yg0H0gQfPc>
Subject: Re: [TLS] I-D on TLS authentication with VC
X-BeenThere: tls@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: "This is the mailing list for the Transport Layer Security working group of the IETF." <tls.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tls>, <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tls/>
List-Post: <mailto:tls@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls>, <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2024 12:14:15 -0000

Hiya,

On 05/04/2024 12:54, Achim Kraus wrote:
> Hi,
> 
>> On that basis, I'd consider this a bad idea that
>> ought not be pursued, and certainly not by the TLS
>> WG.
> 
> for me this sounds more like an argument for a
> 
> "recommended (for general use-cases) n".

I'd go further - ISTM an argument for a re-design
that just doesn't have the privacy problem. (And
maybe come back to the TLS WG after that's done.)

> Or does the TLS group focus on Web only and I missed that?

My mail made no reference to the web. The problem,
if it exists, would apply to all uses of TLS that
enabled this mechanism.

Cheers,
S.

> 
> best regards
> Achim
>