Re: [TLS] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tls-chacha20-poly1305-00.txt
Simon Josefsson <simon@josefsson.org> Tue, 16 June 2015 08:08 UTC
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From: Simon Josefsson <simon@josefsson.org>
To: Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com>
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Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2015 10:08:30 +0200
In-Reply-To: <CAH8yC8=wUEpqrcCUdoYwTGbsjB25FUvHbj=zvXgo+5f4fmkt3Q@mail.gmail.com> (Jeffrey Walton's message of "Mon, 15 Jun 2015 19:46:01 -0400")
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Subject: Re: [TLS] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tls-chacha20-poly1305-00.txt
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Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> writes: >>>> What is the use-case? >>> >>> 0. Authentication other than via certificate-based PKI. Establish >>> anon TLS, and channel-bind the TLS-unique via GSSAPI or some >>> other authentication method. >>> >>> 1. Unauthenticated opportunistic TLS. >>> >>> * Server performs no unnecessary signature operations, >>> since the client can't verify the signature anyway. >>> (More precisely the client can't verify the authenticity >>> of the server keys, so it can only determine that somebody >>> signed the handshake, but no idea whether it is the intended >>> server). >> >> Both those use-cases can be achieved by choosing, say, ECDHE_ECDSA and >> not verify the signature, right? >> > That's a violation of the engineering requirements :) If you don't > need server authenticity, then you don't ask for it. If you ask for > it, then you have to validate it. It may appear that way -- but implementing support for ANON ciphers is more work than NOT implementing support for certificate validation. Supporting ANON in standards, implementation, testing/QA etc carry a cost. We should strive towards offsetting costs with use-cases that can motivate the costs. > I know I'm splitting hairs, but I would reject that kind of check-in. > I fear a proliferation of > https://crypto.stanford.edu/~dabo/pubs/abstracts/ssl-client-bugs.html. > It also creates a few extra rules, and we have to teach them to > developers, QA and auditors. Negotiating these ciphers and not verifying the signature is already widely deployed (e.g., SMTP STARTTLS), so there is nothing new that needs to be done. /Simon
- [TLS] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tls-chacha20-poly130… internet-drafts
- Re: [TLS] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tls-chacha20-pol… Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tls-chacha20-pol… Simon Josefsson
- Re: [TLS] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tls-chacha20-pol… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [TLS] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tls-chacha20-pol… Simon Josefsson
- Re: [TLS] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tls-chacha20-pol… Jeffrey Walton
- Re: [TLS] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tls-chacha20-pol… Simon Josefsson
- Re: [TLS] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tls-chacha20-pol… Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos
- Re: [TLS] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tls-chacha20-pol… Simon Josefsson
- Re: [TLS] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tls-chacha20-pol… Hubert Kario
- Re: [TLS] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tls-chacha20-pol… Martin Rex