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Re: [tram] STUNBIS: Retransmissions over TCP

Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal <muthu.arul@gmail.com> Tue, 26 July 2016 12:50 UTC

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From: Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal <muthu.arul@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 18:20:16 +0530
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To: Simon Perreault <sperreault@jive.com>
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Cc: "Olle E. Johansson" <oej@edvina.net>, "tram@ietf.org" <tram@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [tram] STUNBIS: Retransmissions over TCP
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The use cases I've heard are:
1. A (broken) middle box doing TCP<->UDP inter-working: If the message get
lost on the UDP side and the transmissions are handled by the TCP stack (in
the kernel), the middle box may not retransmit the message over UDP causing
problem for endpoints.
2. Mobility: If the IP address changes, TCP may not know whether the
message was sent or not.

These are what I've overheard, though I haven't come across the problem
myself..

Muthu

On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 5:39 PM, Simon Perreault <sperreault@jive.com>
wrote:

> Le 2016-07-26 à 05:23, Olle E. Johansson a écrit :
> > Section 6.2.2:
> >
> > "Reliability of STUN over TCP and TLS-over-TCP is handled by TCP
> >    itself, and there are no retransmissions at the STUN protocol level.”
> >
> > When using STUN over mobile networks, I think this is a bad assumption.
> > We’ve seen many times that TCP proxys cause TCP to fail and they don’t
> follow
> > the original intention of TCP. The SIP message fails, even though TCP
> confirmed
> > delivery. I’ve got confirmation from a few developers that they started
> to send UDP-style
> > retransmits over TCP to get around this.
>
> I think this will be met with incredulity and responses along the lines
> of "pcap or GTFO". :)
>
> I admit I'd like to see a more detailed description of the problem
> before we mandate such a profound change in the protocol. Would you be
> able to get one of those developers to come talk to us?
>
> > As a discovery protocol, I think we need STUN to discover situations
> like this.
> > I know it’s not religiously correct, but retransmits over TCP
> unfortunately makes sense
> > in today’s broken network, especially for a protocol designed to
> discover middle boxes.
>
> To be clear: you actually mean sending a second Binding request on the
> *same* TCP connection, right? Not opening a new one?
>
> Simon
>
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