Re: [Trans] [trans] #34 (rfc6962-bis): use of RFC 5246 syntax to define the SCT

Stephen Kent <kent@bbn.com> Fri, 20 March 2015 18:11 UTC

Return-Path: <kent@bbn.com>
X-Original-To: trans@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: trans@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 661F71A6F2E for <trans@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 20 Mar 2015 11:11:31 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.211
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L_5Hyg-aJvK6 for <trans@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 20 Mar 2015 11:11:30 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from smtp.bbn.com (smtp.bbn.com [128.33.0.80]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 44BFA1A6F0A for <trans@ietf.org>; Fri, 20 Mar 2015 11:11:30 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ssh.bbn.com ([192.1.122.15]:48036 helo=COMSEC.home) by smtp.bbn.com with esmtp (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <kent@bbn.com>) id 1YZ1OL-000LX7-Aq for trans@ietf.org; Fri, 20 Mar 2015 14:11:29 -0400
Message-ID: <550C62D1.2050002@bbn.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2015 14:11:29 -0400
From: Stephen Kent <kent@bbn.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.5.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: trans@ietf.org
References: <052.10eb26d4fde793d0a60756eb4c9dc8cc@tools.ietf.org> <067.3f6fd76ea878508f23fc24cdf754d7e0@tools.ietf.org> <54EF8403.90307@bbn.com> <54EFAAE7.3040707@comodo.com> <54EFB7B9.1010001@gmail.com> <537F8554-19B7-4C66-BA5E-A48D11FFCB51@vigilsec.com> <CABrd9SRn0ayrWzEstsZ5xCPY5seUGtoMgZsokhkzizjM=N2wJQ@mail.gmail.com> <55005FDD.8060009@bbn.com> <55007BB5.4040007@cs.tcd.ie> <5501A6B3.1090605@bbn.com> <5501A7B6.9090100@cs.tcd.ie>
In-Reply-To: <5501A7B6.9090100@cs.tcd.ie>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/trans/6ddCSxk7NAilWCJqxyt0F8ZYax0>
Subject: Re: [Trans] [trans] #34 (rfc6962-bis): use of RFC 5246 syntax to define the SCT
X-BeenThere: trans@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Public Notary Transparency working group discussion list <trans.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/trans>, <mailto:trans-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/trans/>
List-Post: <mailto:trans@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:trans-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/trans>, <mailto:trans-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2015 18:11:31 -0000

Stephen,
> On 12/03/15 14:46, Stephen Kent wrote:
>> This gets to my point of why it is inappropriate to cite a
>> design decision of an Experimental RFC as an alternative to
>> existing Standards.
> No, we currently have no existing standard or bcp that
> says the OCTET STRING value has to be decodable as ASN.1.
> So this is not a question of an alternative to an existing
> standard but is only about a new standard.
I assume your comment is meant to apply to cert extensions.
In that context I agree. Suggesting that we create a new standard that
endorses using an OCTET STRING as a catch-all for X.509 is precisely the
sort or precedent setting that should be viewed from an architectural
perspective, not from the perspective of expedience.
>> The fact that a small group of implementers
>> elected to use a questionable encoding for a cert extension
>> does not, per se, justify perpetuating that.
> Well, the above is clearly coming at the issue from only
> one point of view, and "small group", "questionable" and
> "perpetuating" are all pejorative terms when looked at
> from the point of view of those who have running code.
The set of CAs and the one browser vendor that is known to have
implemented this represents a "small group" relative to the
set of folks who deal with certs overall. Because you agree
that this is a precedent-setting issue, it may ultimately affect
certs used in other contexts, so "small" seems very accurate.

I stand by my choice of the term "questionable" as well. Most folks
who I contacted see this as a hack, even if it is not expressly a violation
of 5280 or x.509.

Steve