Re: TCP behavior across WiFi pointers ?

Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se> Wed, 29 November 2017 05:17 UTC

Return-Path: <swmike@swm.pp.se>
X-Original-To: tsv-area@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tsv-area@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71E8612025C for <tsv-area@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 21:17:24 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.301
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=swm.pp.se
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c11AN_8fPC9i for <tsv-area@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 21:17:22 -0800 (PST)
Received: from uplift.swm.pp.se (swm.pp.se [212.247.200.143]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 631A31200F1 for <tsv-area@ietf.org>; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 21:17:22 -0800 (PST)
Received: by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix, from userid 501) id 00A94B1; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 06:17:19 +0100 (CET)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=swm.pp.se; s=mail; t=1511932640; bh=QlryJeUQPHmkcImmmdiqmCRcH0LD72+TNZkb2ZNpqi4=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=lmoiY3EL4gAiYQiOMYjMBs9GwBMbJwKa8mGBcK0lXzFnij6jAJMpqfuPDUaUYmdAI UFY7UpVe02PQ+G67qoTtbxZfttiXwBf4mSdex9PHK59whUU3OGpeUMNJw4BqgtDKKu q410IUogVZG6U9+zjO7pvLyIMBnv1AXqFTyFcRj0=
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD00FB0; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 06:17:19 +0100 (CET)
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 06:17:19 +0100
From: Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se>
To: Toerless Eckert <tte+ietf@cs.fau.de>
cc: tsv-area@ietf.org
Subject: Re: TCP behavior across WiFi pointers ?
In-Reply-To: <20171108174247.GM19390@faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1711290608030.32099@uplift.swm.pp.se>
References: <20171108174247.GM19390@faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (DEB 67 2015-01-07)
Organization: People's Front Against WWW
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"; format="flowed"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tsv-area/HcHU9xP1Z5qTnz3-Itw987xoa8U>
X-BeenThere: tsv-area@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF Transport and Services Area Mailing List <tsv-area.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tsv-area>, <mailto:tsv-area-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tsv-area/>
List-Post: <mailto:tsv-area@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tsv-area-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsv-area>, <mailto:tsv-area-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 05:17:24 -0000

On Wed, 8 Nov 2017, Toerless Eckert wrote:

> I am primarily thinking that there could be a higher demand for
> TCP (end-to-end) retransmissions when using WiFi because the L2/WiFi
> local retransmissions are insufficient. And if so, what the characteristics

I don't know of any work you're asking for, but from my own experience 
radio networks (wifi + cellular) has the following 
(general) characteristics:

They deliver packets in-order per host.

The try very very hard to deliver all packets (true for unicast only on 
wifi), using L1/L2 retransmits.

Because of this, they sometimes "stall" shorter or longer times, so you 
might get latency spikes of hundreds of milliseconds that are gone in the 
next second. My personal record is 180 SECONDS of RTT on a 2G network.

These latency spikes might cause TCP to believe there was packet loss and 
cause retransmits, where there instead "only" was packet delay.

Radio networks have airtime schedulers, so a single packet and a train of 
packets might have very different network experience. Some network 
types send multiple packets in a single transmit opportunity, and these 
transmit opportunities might be tens of milliseconds apart.

-- 
Mikael Abrahamsson    email: swmike@swm.pp.se