Re: [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-httpbis-bcp56bis-12

Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net> Wed, 14 July 2021 01:49 UTC

Return-Path: <mnot@mnot.net>
X-Original-To: tsv-art@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tsv-art@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED18D3A104E; Tue, 13 Jul 2021 18:49:59 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.099
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=mnot.net header.b=NQ2IJTEt; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=cj2M6/HY
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id N3AsStpKrxmi; Tue, 13 Jul 2021 18:49:55 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from wout3-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout3-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D31D03A1050; Tue, 13 Jul 2021 18:49:51 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from compute6.internal (compute6.nyi.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96A0C320092A; Tue, 13 Jul 2021 21:49:50 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 13 Jul 2021 21:49:50 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mnot.net; h= content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; s=fm3; bh=2 zzdiWdRN97gZyOluF27M5YTiSmzHg79CZivgFI/J4k=; b=NQ2IJTEtKj1HGRHoB 1+/jBMcPMHdB7Na8E7jg9L4Br8KerAhFJ5JG/1eK5X3ljVDnCJh4fB8K1AwaMFay SFlqzZUoppG/0i+GKPoXS4Pc6ezjg3lDyqpg2A+kLwkc/4Ow/xJ3Dd4hdVT4M9Oe hl51nfAdj621m3zAROlWjqmpdtJ5qFaR+eRVGXCHryJtfpj+aAHrMrCqCJiUL0HT tXtfbXOKsyihsyU6qbqZbEdCHmG5GO1YtPd6Ocv1Fkiu9dS0riRj3nqb5LD7P3KM 9uhs3a2/dNDRValWDZAL0TJD9yPNVgCCkEUNyi12ZqxRYLybiAoB/8/Mub53cDHy GW4kw==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; bh=2zzdiWdRN97gZyOluF27M5YTiSmzHg79CZivgFI/J 4k=; b=cj2M6/HYY5oRrr/TF8yTem9Zt6cB8vGZFjS0SrRdVEhQuyKTHs0P0TR2V aL1WMyqck0JEfGqMebkaOjdjCxp+3Dws6TRyZf++Lpbv0YZm3B+dhQv+zSjbmuX4 AHQExnB9GjK5VQ0zoC9bIbbiFOjoGUdKnk7yS3Ye43ZmvcNqXQH1IENUwMduxSIe s3opWYKoLTGUcJieuimYSl7v7SuUpbpnxGdpSnp+4/VA4boW3Kl47B+BXOFaUc5K C9GoI8fAYfZ/eeRfedtm8MblE8U+GQw1uhxn8JgN7zE4ae1F9mNqhc45xQNBR4h5 PyExNTQL6TLrvOCaYhy0xC97tP5QQ==
X-ME-Sender: <xms:vELuYK9Lzy_nc0i6C6cMKoMKRHHCumRy1jk49rWsBNaXaCyk8sC00g> <xme:vELuYKuPjGgZC98eyVBSkFvML2PjBzT4Eml5ce4RkTQNVx6RnSd93sSHhyDFtvUu5 RdM6qfov6OCVUPkzw>
X-ME-Received: <xmr:vELuYAAm8X_UMR5MoRYSfzMkAFpSW-UaQQiv3iRwCszqMmA-2s18AxpbZRswznV5ims5XMQ9Oz99SanYw-0ZG76SGhY0fYKKFajUlbDWmC6_-Fp_5hORhraZ>
X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvtddrudejgdeggecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenuc fjughrpegtggfuhfgjfffgkfhfvffosehtqhhmtdhhtddvnecuhfhrohhmpeforghrkhcu pfhothhtihhnghhhrghmuceomhhnohhtsehmnhhothdrnhgvtheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvg hrnhepvefffffhudetveevhfeuffeigedtuedtheffleetffeftddtgeegjeehieeuteet necuffhomhgrihhnpehmnhhothdrnhgvthenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurf grrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehmnhhothesmhhnohhtrdhnvght
X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:vELuYCeatG6ig8UpIQT8vqPfGnfYcTMRzs-m8MVCtTT31aCxZEufAg> <xmx:vELuYPNwnI-z9OXCK55oDOF4BrWrGle0cSW0qFzi9t4dc1tKL3YzRg> <xmx:vELuYMkFAQ6DbDDyXCeptkXzGX7YvDyQt5bx5uFnqtfQ8KbvVsJiTw> <xmx:vkLuYLD68ljftpSZs6jW-Kx0y_soUti5xzm1oQoXP-KOQuzWr48WdA>
Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Tue, 13 Jul 2021 21:49:46 -0400 (EDT)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.100.0.2.22\))
From: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>
In-Reply-To: <162622583510.20538.12289478664310472494@ietfa.amsl.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2021 11:49:44 +1000
Cc: tsv-art@ietf.org, draft-ietf-httpbis-bcp56bis.all@ietf.org, ietf-http-wg@w3.org, last-call@ietf.org
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <5B62497D-6009-4CB7-B99F-EC7DCB128967@mnot.net>
References: <162622583510.20538.12289478664310472494@ietfa.amsl.com>
To: David Black <david.black@dell.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.100.0.2.22)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tsv-art/OVNogj-IFLSfC-1D67BikCiAoso>
Subject: Re: [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-httpbis-bcp56bis-12
X-BeenThere: tsv-art@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Transport Area Review Team <tsv-art.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tsv-art>, <mailto:tsv-art-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tsv-art/>
List-Post: <mailto:tsv-art@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tsv-art-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsv-art>, <mailto:tsv-art-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2021 01:50:00 -0000

Hi David,

Thanks very much for the review. I think it's probably best to defer discussion of the issue below until the IESG does its comments/DISCUSSes, as they ultimately own policy in this area (AIUI).

Cheers,


> On 14 Jul 2021, at 11:23 am, David Black via Datatracker <noreply@ietf.org> wrote:
> 
> I did notice one non-Transport ISSUE of potential concern - Section 4.3 on
> Specifying Client Behavior leads off with these two paragraphs:
> 
>   An application's expectations for client behaviour ought to be
>   closely aligned with those of Web browsers, to avoid interoperability
>   issues when they are used.
> 
>   One way to do this is to define it in terms of [FETCH], since that is
>   the abstraction that browsers use for HTTP.
> 
> Based on this text, I was surprised to see that not only is [FETCH] an
> informative reference, but that it is also a reference to a non-archival source
> (WHATWG, "Fetch - Living Standard").   Given the prominent use of that
> citation, I'd think that the reference ought to be a normative reference to an
> archival document, perhaps complemented with advice on where to find
> updated versions of that document.
> 

--
Mark Nottingham   https://www.mnot.net/