Re: [tsvwg] New Version Notification for draft-herbert-tcp-in-udp-00.txt

[Tom Herbert <[e-mail]>]

On Mon, Aug 14, 2023 at 12:30 AM Michael Welzl <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> Dear Tom, dear everyone else @ TSVWG,
>
> I’m (somewhat obviously, if you see what I write below) strongly in favour of this draft - and also happy to help with it.  This idea (in some form) has been proposed multiple times over the years, and never took off; perhaps the time is now right?
> Below is some material.
>
>
> Earlier similar proposals:
> ====================
>
> The first appearance I know of:  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-denis-udp-transport-00   (likely it isn’t the first to exist!)
> Much later:  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cheshire-tcp-over-udp-00
> and finally, our own effort:  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-welzl-tcp-ccc
> which I presented in ICCRG, at IETF-95:  https://folk.universitetetioslo.no/michawe/research/publications/ietf95-iccrg-tcp-in-udp.pdf
>

Hi Michael,

Thanks, for the references! It's not surprising that it keeps recycling.

>
>
> Work showing benefits:
> ===================
>
> There may be several reasons to do this. Our own interest, back then, was in implementing (single-path!) coupled congestion control in the style of RFC 8699 for TCP.
> Such coupling can only work when we know that the connections traverse the same bottleneck - either via measurement (RFC 8382), or because, as with this encapsulation, they carry the same outer 5-tuple.
> Our coupling is lightweight, as it doesn’t require re-vamping the entire congestion control code like the congestion manager. It still yields all the benefits of a single congestion control instance, just like a multi-streaming transport would have: lower latency and packet loss from less competition, and the ability to execute precise prioritization.
>
> This was done in the context of Safiqul Islam’s Ph.D. thesis. These publications describe the benefits:
>
> Safiqul Islam, Michael Welzl, Kristian Hiorth, David Hayes, Grenville Armitage, Stein Gjessing: "ctrlTCP: Reducing Latency through Coupled, Heterogeneous Multi-Flow TCP Congestion Control", IEEE INFOCOM Global Internet Symposium (GI) workshop (GI 2018), Honolulu, HI, April 2018. DOI 10.1109/INFCOMW.2018.8406887
> https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/8406887
> Preprint: https://folk.universitetetioslo.no/michawe/research/publications/ctrltcp-infocom-gi-2018.pdf
>
> and, focusing on the benefit of ramping up cwnd faster when joining other connections:
> Safiqul Islam, Michael Welzl: "Start Me Up: Determining and Sharing TCP's Initial Congestion Window", ACM, IRTF, ISOC Applied Networking Research Workshop 2016 (ANRW 2016), Berlin, Germany, 16 July 2016. DOI https://doi.org/10.1145/2959424.2959440
> https://dl.acm.org/authorize?N16076

Would you like to provide some text for the draft in motivation and
previous work?

Thanks,
Tom

>
>
> Code:
> ======
>
> We have ( ...somewhere. I’ll be happy to dig for it if someone wants it! ) a FreeBSD implementation of both the congestion control coupling and the encapsulation, and it’s described in more detail here:
> https://www.duo.uio.no/handle/10852/51926
>
>
> Cheers,
> Michael
>
>
>
> On 12 Aug 2023, at 00:22, Tom Herbert <tom=[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> This is a draft describing how TCP could be encapsulated in UDP. This
> would be useful if UDP really is to be the "new network layer" and we
> want to use UDP Options with TCP to carry network layer options.
>
> Thanks,
> Tom
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: <[e-mail]>
> Date: Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 3:19 PM
> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-herbert-tcp-in-udp-00.txt
> To: Tom Herbert <[e-mail]>
>
>
>
> A new version of I-D, draft-herbert-tcp-in-udp-00.txt
> has been successfully submitted by Tom Herbert and posted to the
> IETF repository.
>
> Name:           draft-herbert-tcp-in-udp
> Revision:       00
> Title:          TCP-in-UDP Encapsulation
> Document date:  2023-08-11
> Group:          Individual Submission
> Pages:          10
> URL:            https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-herbert-tcp-in-udp-00.txt
> Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-herbert-tcp-in-udp/
> Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-herbert-tcp-in-udp
>
>
> Abstract:
>   This document specifies a method of encapsulating TCP protocol
>   packets within UDP headers.  TCP-in-UDP is useful in situations where
>   network capabilities specific to UDP can be leveraged for TCP
>   packets.
>
>
>
>
> The IETF Secretariat
>
>