Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.txt> (Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) Procedures for the Management of the Service Name and Transport Protocol Port Number Registry) to BCP
Sam Hartman <hartmans-ietf@mit.edu> Tue, 01 February 2011 20:08 UTC
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From: Sam Hartman <hartmans-ietf@mit.edu>
To: Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu>
Subject: Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.txt> (Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) Procedures for the Management of the Service Name and Transport Protocol Port Number Registry) to BCP
References: <20110118212603.5733.34489.idtracker@localhost> <B88A8A82-9C4A-40AC-89AF-F177260760F7@cisco.com> <ECA80A72-4E72-44D2-B40E-C90D7197E8C5@nokia.com> <4D421795.70505@isi.edu> <tslbp2vh8ig.fsf@mit.edu> <4D485E2B.4080201@isi.edu>
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2011 15:12:01 -0500
In-Reply-To: <4D485E2B.4080201@isi.edu> (Joe Touch's message of "Tue, 01 Feb 2011 11:25:31 -0800")
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Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org, Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org>, IESG IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, Sam Hartman <hartmans-ietf@MIT.EDU>, IETF discussion list <ietf@ietf.org>
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>>>>> "Joe" == Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu> writes: Joe> On 2/1/2011 11:14 AM, Sam Hartman wrote: Joe> ... >> Joe, the IESG had a fair amount of negative experience with this >> style of review just before I joined; this type of review was >> just about out of the process leading to blocking objections when >> I joined as an AD. >> >> I think that being able to discuss concerns with reviewers and >> being able to consider potential conflicts and other issues mean >> that an open dialogue with identified reviewers is an important >> part of our process. Anonymous contributions may have their place >> in the WG process, but I don't think they should have a place in >> expert review oor blocking objections to documents. So, as an >> individual I strongly support making expert reviewers identities >> public. Joe> Such reviews occur elsewhere in the IETF as well; it's not a Joe> requirement that every review include a list of all consulted Joe> parties. This is no different. IANA is the one making the Joe> decision of how to use the advice they receive. Joe, RFC 5226 disagrees with you fairly significantly. I draw your attention in particular to section 3.2, and particularly call our attention to several points made there: * The designated expert is responsible for initiating and coordinating the review. * Designated experts are expected to be able to defend their *decisions* to the IETf community * The process is not intended to be secretive * Experts make a single clear recommendation to IANA * In cases of deadlock IESG may be pulled in to resolve disputes * When IANA receives conflicting advice, chair of pool of experts gives clear *instructions* to IANA. On page 10, the expert review criteria requires approval of a designated expert. I submit based on the above that the experts rather than IANA are making the decision; the expert has the responsibility of justifying and defending their decision. Moreover anonymous expert reviews violate two BCP requirements: they tend to a secretive process and they do not facilitate the expert defending their decision to the IETF community. Having read RFc 5226 my objection to anonymous expert reviews is much stronger than when I first read Cullen's message.
- Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.txt> (… The IESG
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Cullen Jennings
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Lars Eggert
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Lars Eggert
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Carsten Bormann
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Joe Touch
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Michelle Cotton
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Cullen Jennings
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… IETF Chair
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Ned Freed
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Cullen Jennings
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Cullen Jennings
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Cullen Jennings
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Cullen Jennings
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Joe Touch
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Joe Touch
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Joe Touch
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Michelle Cotton
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Lars Eggert
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Paul Hoffman
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… David Conrad
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Paul Hoffman
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Lars Eggert
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Cullen Jennings
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Eliot Lear
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Cullen Jennings
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Michelle Cotton
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Joe Touch
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Joe Touch
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Joe Touch
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Cullen Jennings
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Cullen Jennings
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Cullen Jennings
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Eliot Lear
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Joe Touch
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Paul Hoffman
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Paul Hoffman
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Cullen Jennings
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Cullen Jennings
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Joe Touch
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Joe Touch
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Ned Freed
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Eric Rescorla
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Paul Hoffman
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Eric Rescorla
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Joe Touch
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Joe Touch
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Eliot Lear
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Sam Hartman
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Joe Touch
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Sam Hartman
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Joe Touch
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Eric Rescorla
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Eric Rescorla
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… t.petch
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Joe Touch
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Chris Benson
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Joe Touch
- RE: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Christian Huitema
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Bob Hinden
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Alexey Melnikov
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Alexey Melnikov
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Cullen Jennings
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Cullen Jennings
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Cullen Jennings
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Alexey Melnikov
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Sam Hartman
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… t.petch
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Paul Hoffman
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Alexey Melnikov
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Lars Eggert
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Joe Touch
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Michelle Cotton
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Eliot Lear
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-09.tx… Markku Kojo