Re: [tsvwg] Artart last call review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-l4s-arch-18
Marco Tiloca <marco.tiloca@ri.se> Sun, 24 July 2022 19:18 UTC
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To: Bob Briscoe <ietf@bobbriscoe.net>, art@ietf.org
Cc: draft-ietf-tsvwg-l4s-arch.all@ietf.org, last-call@ietf.org, tsvwg@ietf.org
References: <165833585200.45796.11505382548835211711@ietfa.amsl.com> <ba2ce8e6-20d9-1fe8-6cbc-bafdc691d684@bobbriscoe.net>
From: Marco Tiloca <marco.tiloca@ri.se>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tsvwg/Mb7v8zNZrNWw70qOyfiAdj3aYNA>
Subject: Re: [tsvwg] Artart last call review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-l4s-arch-18
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Hi Bob, Thanks for your replies! Please see inline. Best, /Marco On 2022-07-24 14:03, Bob Briscoe wrote: > Marco, > > Thank you for taking the time to review the whole document with fresh > eyes - much appreciated. > We've taken all your points. In a couple of places, we modified a > little - see [BB] inline. > > > On 20/07/2022 17:50, Marco Tiloca via Datatracker wrote: >> Reviewer: Marco Tiloca >> Review result: Ready with Nits >> >> Thanks for this document! Please see my comments below. >> >> Best, >> /Marco >> >> [General] >> >> * Based on the guidelines from RFC 7322, the "Acknowledgements" section should >> be unnumbered and placed between the "References" section and the "Authors' >> Addresses" section. >> >> * It is worth mentioning upfront that "capacity" refers to "link capacity" in >> terms of experienced bit rate. This becomes explicit only in Section 5.1, when >> discussing "Scalable throughput." > > [BB] This is useful feedback. > > We've substituted /capacity/link capacity/. > > Because we in the transport area 'capacity' every day. So, to better > understand the comprehension problem, can I ask what you thought > 'capacity' meant otherwise? ==>MT Honestly, common sense does suggest "capacity" to be referred to experienced bit rate over the link. But until I saw that confirmed in Section 5.1, I wondered: i) if "capacity" could (also) refer to, e.g., session establishment rate, maximum number of users/sessions that can be afforded etc. ; and ii) what "capacity" was applied to, i.e., a link, a network segment, a pool of network resources, etc. I think that using "link capacity" should be good and clear enough now :-) <== > Do you want capacity explained in the terminology list? ==>MT No; at least from my point of view, I don't see that as necessary. <== > >> [Abstract] >> >> * The three components of the L4S architecture include "protocol features that >> allow network elements to identify L4S traffic". >> >> The protocol in question becomes evident in Section 2 as ECN. The abstract >> can already mention that, e.g., as "features of the Explicit Congestion >> Notification (ECN) protocol that allow ..." > > [BB] I've done this differently, 'cos I can see your point that many > folks will just want to know what this protocol is, but shoe-horning > it into this sentence adds distraction to what was meant to be a quick > 1,2,3. So, I propose to add the last sentence below. It makes the > already-slightly-long abstract slightly longer, but...: > > The L4S architecture consists of three components: network support > to isolate L4S traffic from classic traffic; protocol features > that allow network elements to identify L4S traffic; and host > support for L4S congestion controls. *The protocol is defined > separately as an experimental change to Explicit Congestion > Notification (ECN).* > > ==>MT Looks good. <== >> [Section 1] >> >> * "With some transport protocols, namely TCP and SCTP, the sender has to check >> for suitably updated receiver feedback, whereas with more recent transport >> protocols such as QUIC and DCCP, all receivers have always been suitable." >> >> The first part of the sentence focuses on checking feedback from receivers, >> while the second one on the actual receivers. Does the second part actually >> mean "... feedback from all receivers is always suitable" ? > > [BB] There's a zero-RTT handshake negotiation with the receiver, so > one could say that the sender doesn't actually check the feedback, it > checks what feedback the receiver says it supports. But the handshake > is encoded into the feedback, so it's hard to draw a line between > receiver and feedback. Whatever, how about this (I've changed yours to > the past imperfect): > > With some transport protocols, namely TCP and SCTP, the sender has to check > for suitably updated receiver feedback, whereas with more recent transport > protocols such as QUIC and DCCP,*feedback from* receivers*has* always been suitable. > > ==>MT Looks good. <== >> [Section 2] >> >> * "... as the protocol to identify to the network which packets are L4S and >> which are Classic." >> >> This should be something like "... as the protocol that allows the network >> to identify which packets are L4S and which are Classic." > > [BB] Yup > >> [Section 5.2] >> >> * "... as opposed to TLS over UDP" >> >> Do you mean "TLS over TCP" or rather "DTLS over UDP"? Or instead the use of >> TLS for securing UDP-based transports such as QUIC? > > [BB] DTLS > >> [Nits] >> >> * Section 3: s/low enough not build/low enough to not build >> >> * Section 4.3: s/specifies that requirements that/specifies the requirements >> that >> >> * Section 5.1: s/because it assume/because it assumes > > [BB] Got all these. > > Thank you. > > > > Bob > > > > -- > ________________________________________________________________ > Bob Briscoehttp://bobbriscoe.net/ -- Marco Tiloca Ph.D., Senior Researcher Phone: +46 (0)70 60 46 501 RISE Research Institutes of Sweden AB Box 1263 164 29 Kista (Sweden) Division: Digital Systems Department: Computer Science Unit: Cybersecurity https://www.ri.se
- [tsvwg] Artart last call review of draft-ietf-tsv… Marco Tiloca via Datatracker
- Re: [tsvwg] [art] Artart last call review of draf… Anjam Saqib
- Re: [tsvwg] Artart last call review of draft-ietf… Bob Briscoe
- Re: [tsvwg] Artart last call review of draft-ietf… Marco Tiloca
- Re: [tsvwg] Artart last call review of draft-ietf… Bob Briscoe