Re: [tsvwg] WG adoption call for draft-amend-tsvwg-multipath-dccp, to end: 19th August 2021

[[e-mail]]

Hi Mirja,

please find my comments inline starting with [MA].

Br

Markus
From: tsvwg <[e-mail]> On Behalf Of Mirja Kuehlewind
Sent: Montag, 16. August 2021 14:25
To: Smith, Kevin, Vodafone <Kevin.Smith=[e-mail]>; Giorgi Gulbani <[e-mail]>; [e-mail]; [e-mail]
Cc: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [tsvwg] WG adoption call for draft-amend-tsvwg-multipath-dccp, to end: 19th August 2021

Hi all,

given ATSSS is mention again, I would like to comment (knowing that discussion should and will in future rather take place in 3GPP).
[MA] Agree, such discussion should take place in 3GPP SA2, maybe best as part of the study phase.

In rel-17 there was agreement to work on a QUIC-based solution for ATSSS, however, given work on MP-QUIC is still pending in the IETF, ATSSS support for non-TCP was postponed to rel-18 where discussion now is re-started what to study.
[MA] Yep, you perfectly described the dilemma. There was no option provided from IETF for the non-TCP issue and the consequence was to postpone any solution from Rel. 16 up to the current Rel. 18 discussion. With MP -DCCP a real alternative, supporting steering, switching and spitting, is available now and perfectly fits into a 3GPP study phase for an assessment. Otherwise it’s likely that we have to postpone again and again because no well-suited MP-QUIC for ATSSS purpose is available, which is against the demand from the operators who signed https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1741/.

So far there was large support in 3GPP for a QUIC-based solution for non-TCP traffic in ATSSS and no discussion about MP-DCCP.
[MA] …which became available now with an Open Source Linux reference implementation, a progressed IETF draft and support from some operators and vendors which believe a solution should be provided in Rel. 18 timeframe. With a potential WG adoption of MP-DCCP, a 3GPP prerequisite is fulfilled.

Even though there is a proposal now  from DT to study use of MP-DCCP,
[MA] Yep, see https://www.3gpp.org/ftp/tsg_sa/WG2_Arch/TSGS2_146E_Electronic_2021-08/Docs/S2-2106497.zip
I personally think that a QUIC-based approach is more future-looking for ATSSS
[MA] What is the definition of future-looking? I see MP-DCCP definitively supporting the future development in ATSSS 😊
rather than supporting yet another transport stack (DCCP)
[MA] I think 3GPP already maintains a lot of stacks, where one additional for DCCP should not be of any importance (similar to MP-QUIC). DCCP is further part of the widely used mainline Linux Kernel which allows similar implementation as for MP-TCP within the ATSSS framework.
only for this use case. Also in the IETF I was hoping that those people interesting in multipath work, would rather cluster their resources to work on MP-QUIC. I of course won’t stop anybody from working on MP-DCCP but I personally don’t think it will be adopted for ATSSS and am not sure if therefore it will be widely used in future.
[MA] I think the scope of MP-DCCP is a little bit broader than ATSSS, even if the latter is now in the foreground because of the urgency there. From Hybrid Access to any multipath support for real-time services, MP-DCCP promises to support. Moreover it delivers and will deliver answers for general research questions in the area of multipath transport for real-time and unreliable traffic (UDP).
To quote here Martin Duke (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-111-tsvwg/): “…There are generic problems around multipath that are maybe research questions and I am glad we have a platform with this [MP-DCCP] and SCTP to explore those.”
[MA] So a support of MP-DCCP should not be understood as a vote against MP-QUIC, it’s rather complementary.

Mirja



From: tsvwg <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> on behalf of "Smith, Kevin, Vodafone" <Kevin.Smith=[e-mail]<mailto:Kevin.Smith=[e-mail]>>
Date: Thursday, 12. August 2021 at 10:45
To: Giorgi Gulbani <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>, "[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>" <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>, "[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>" <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Cc: "[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>" <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Subject: Re: [tsvwg] WG adoption call for draft-amend-tsvwg-multipath-dccp, to end: 19th August 2021

I support WG adoption of MP-DCCP to facilitate its assessment for 3GPP ATSSS
All best,
Kevin

From: tsvwg <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> On Behalf Of Giorgi Gulbani
Sent: 11 August 2021 14:49
To: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Cc: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [tsvwg] WG adoption call for draft-amend-tsvwg-multipath-dccp, to end: 19th August 2021

CYBER SECURITY WARNING: This email is from an external source - be careful of attachments and links. Please follow the Cyber Code and report suspicious emails.
I also support WG adoption of the multipath-dccp.

Kind regards,

Giorgi

From: tsvwg [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of philip.eardley=[e-mail]<mailto:philip.eardley=[e-mail]>
Sent: Tuesday, 10 August 2021 16.33
To: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Cc: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [tsvwg] WG adoption call for draft-amend-tsvwg-multipath-dccp, to end: 19th August 2021

I support wg adoption
Best wishes
Phil
________________________________
From: tsvwg <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> on behalf of Gorry Fairhurst <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Sent: Tuesday, August 3, 2021 9:13 am
To: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Cc: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Subject: [tsvwg] WG adoption call for draft-amend-tsvwg-multipath-dccp, to end: 19th August 2021

TSVWG,

The WG is running an adoption call for:

DCCP Extensions for Multipath Operation with Multiple Addresses

draft-amend-tsvwg-multipath-dccp<https://protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=11fd7916-4e664055-11fd398d-861fcb972bfc-f35a4a522aca432c&q=1&e=d90d662d-1f31-4084-9c07-7716a118bc27&u=https%3A%2F%2Feur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.potaroo.net%252Fietf%252Fidref%252Fdraft-amend-tsvwg-multipath-dccp%252Frfcmarkup%253Frepository%253D%252Faway%252Fietf%2526url%253D%252Faway%252Fietf%252Fall-ids%252Fdraft-amend-tsvwg-multipath-dccp-05%26data%3D04%257C01%257Cphilip.eardley%2540bt.com%257C52016cbb67804017455f08d956567cd1%257Ca7f356889c004d5eba4129f146377ab0%257C0%257C0%257C637635752309970912%257CUnknown%257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%253D%257C2000%26sdata%3DeMROW6%252FU45tmbatawD2%252FDNyDptYvQ9dLd9fOl6hlohI%253D%26reserved%3D0>
This document is currently marked as Experimental. The adoption call will end at midnight UTC on 19th August, 2021.

Please do read the draft, and send any comments/concerns to either the tsvwg or to the chairs <[e-mail]><mailto:[e-mail]>. Notes of support to progress this work, and volunteers to review the drafts will be very welcome at this stage.
Thanks, Gorry, David and Wes
(tsvwg co-chairs)

Note: The IPR search relating to this draft returns: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/search/?submit=draft&id=draft-amend-tsvwg-multipath-dccp<https://protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=9fbea4e8-c0259dab-9fbee473-861fcb972bfc-52cbeacecdadb17d&q=1&e=d90d662d-1f31-4084-9c07-7716a118bc27&u=https%3A%2F%2Feur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fdatatracker.ietf.org%252Fipr%252Fsearch%252F%253Fsubmit%253Ddraft%2526id%253Ddraft-amend-tsvwg-multipath-dccp%26data%3D04%257C01%257Cphilip.eardley%2540bt.com%257C52016cbb67804017455f08d956567cd1%257Ca7f356889c004d5eba4129f146377ab0%257C0%257C0%257C637635752309980909%257CUnknown%257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%253D%257C2000%26sdata%3Dks3L29q%252FMGSA5TUBo%252FiK3kw47%252FUhArmnkmjDQtIV3bk%253D%26reserved%3D0> (updated 19/7/2021).