Re: [Unbearable] 0-RTT Token Binding: When to switch exporters?

Nick Harper <nharper@google.com> Wed, 01 March 2017 01:01 UTC

Return-Path: <nharper@google.com>
X-Original-To: unbearable@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: unbearable@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EACA12945C for <unbearable@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 28 Feb 2017 17:01:26 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.702
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.702 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mWpAqW3aAXei for <unbearable@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 28 Feb 2017 17:01:25 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-yw0-x232.google.com (mail-yw0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c05::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FF6A1293DA for <unbearable@ietf.org>; Tue, 28 Feb 2017 17:01:25 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-yw0-x232.google.com with SMTP id v200so21170052ywc.3 for <unbearable@ietf.org>; Tue, 28 Feb 2017 17:01:25 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ioti1rWF0mlCwh/Kbdmk/RPG34RyKIh+NhZW6VGHNAg=; b=O9bgREIBqN3SCzDGoLkfdBlFkbngvud83L25wqyNY/mMLhlMl8/htyZyik7da3TGND YRSNo5zXWg7kXt/zoqU4pAYotivHO1oZ43pz4YSF8FpyeIiYYZiKbkWX7a6QDtJBfvO5 H1wUeXQUhC3c7dsZatVgX2+U3rqppU2U3pOmgEHLdfrkhGDfIDucGLCOnB1cR87Z1CTN /i2UaP4NnxKaCCXu2Am898bgFzr5URapv1zooO5BZ4SpTG2xCVKJDuPlO2ezs67L3vuH vgxcNjKOHa5/eF6QP/6H/c398rR2GbCpGSyuQxpj/oQ1L2+Is6zHCfDlv4j48//nXFSS VoNg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ioti1rWF0mlCwh/Kbdmk/RPG34RyKIh+NhZW6VGHNAg=; b=XLf6w4GWYLLPeKXqh5Nfp7HdwmDUQbDXw8QHkC8Kiz30JnsGTEOehoGfIQGW4Nt0wm 6306jgWYGPaepEEZtiJXzmuaT918KwpQuIqZHp5yDLbS5A+acTLDmCu0whMT2QdtE8Id rQtxRakb6rSB/Ze5yhZhdhr3g0wbayl06y+Gz1ek4AftiKvFtQzlcJR9qukyqucfIC+N EBt65nUn9DXENSx4n13uwG9Fdwf87WXPqRyLmz5Ilovjw8XtXHX+4q4vu4+rTmreWMEM zQKUQeJSFBoxSpQYK3QzXGk1Agn1kIRuzJNAi3PgSKdeG3x0MUBAc/yzidONdsNy/u4u recg==
X-Gm-Message-State: AMke39l6qvar11TRCeeDZd3182VNcSzy7AsiuTXuRPNk2mYiGt/zja7WEcvR0FuhwFoXK8h68KwOl5psDYbX2bUz
X-Received: by 10.129.75.204 with SMTP id y195mr617714ywa.320.1488330084361; Tue, 28 Feb 2017 17:01:24 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.129.65.5 with HTTP; Tue, 28 Feb 2017 17:01:03 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <SN1PR21MB0096D7426A4E230E284F0D058C560@SN1PR21MB0096.namprd21.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CACdeXiK2Hs=Kz_5OFryWR+9_t6nDL_p7NKjw=CwRsua_E5S9Mw@mail.gmail.com> <DM2PR0301MB084793F58146F8574BF36EE18C780@DM2PR0301MB0847.namprd03.prod.outlook.com> <CACdeXiJGcsTxrSWmd5BZrfoWTHhFF3+RisQFD628iYNMzZakhQ@mail.gmail.com> <CACdeXiJFe7-jM9qEnNB+Wp3joGxF_X1z+-dPywb9SRZuSNmAzQ@mail.gmail.com> <DM2PR21MB0091E3F087E1AECA3A63A3788C560@DM2PR21MB0091.namprd21.prod.outlook.com> <CACdeXi+YjLaXtoX47LtVK4Ay2y-mCOOraV46gbbbuQPL40ngXg@mail.gmail.com> <DM2PR21MB00910C83983BEE885B0E04288C560@DM2PR21MB0091.namprd21.prod.outlook.com> <CACdeXiLON5OAjfFCNsenCeaGV3a_LDoi17VAk=fSzF0YA5=f7Q@mail.gmail.com> <CACdeXiLNCrPSz0_hZSpQ6tsoHB7ryJ2dCnHjUYwu5vu5fO4XBg@mail.gmail.com> <SN1PR21MB0096D7426A4E230E284F0D058C560@SN1PR21MB0096.namprd21.prod.outlook.com>
From: Nick Harper <nharper@google.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 17:01:03 -0800
Message-ID: <CACdeXiKuzNh0fP9b-jEF82m-6mX+i04To96GMa_tFNcuznGn+A@mail.gmail.com>
To: Andrei Popov <Andrei.Popov@microsoft.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/unbearable/UnvJjaBVWzD7Q3IJ_tlFjSArKV4>
Cc: IETF Tokbind WG <unbearable@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Unbearable] 0-RTT Token Binding: When to switch exporters?
X-BeenThere: unbearable@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17
Precedence: list
List-Id: "\"This list is for discussion of proposals for doing better than bearer tokens \(e.g. HTTP cookies, OAuth tokens etc.\) for web applications. The specific goal is chartering a WG focused on preventing security token export and replay attacks.\"" <unbearable.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/unbearable>, <mailto:unbearable-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/unbearable/>
List-Post: <mailto:unbearable@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:unbearable-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/unbearable>, <mailto:unbearable-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2017 01:01:26 -0000

On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 3:34 PM, Andrei Popov
<Andrei.Popov@microsoft.com> wrote:
>>> It seems that the right thing to do is not allow Token Binding
>>> messages until exporter_secret is available.
>>
>> That restriction would effectively mean that Token Binding can't be
>> used with 0-RTT.
>
> More precisely, this would mean that TB (and bound tokens) cannot be sent as part of 0-RTT data. TB (and bound tokens) could still be used after the server's response, as soon as exporter_secret is available.

The purpose of draft-ietf-tokbind-tls13-0rtt is to allow sending a
bound token (along with a TokenBinding struct to verify the binding)
in 0-RTT data, which that option doesn't allow.

For HTTP, that option would mean a client resuming a connection and
sending 0-RTT data can only send in 0-RTT data requests that have no
cookies (or other potentially bound tokens), which is a very limited
use case.