Re: Application for a formal URN NID ("EIDR")
Pierre-Anthony Lemieux <pal@sandflow.com> Mon, 03 March 2014 19:26 UTC
Return-Path: <pal@sandflow.com>
X-Original-To: urn-nid@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: urn-nid@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8BDD1A0218 for <urn-nid@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 3 Mar 2014 11:26:14 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.978
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.978 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DwcYU27aeYNV for <urn-nid@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 3 Mar 2014 11:26:11 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-qc0-f174.google.com (mail-qc0-f174.google.com [209.85.216.174]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61F401A0216 for <urn-nid@apps.ietf.org>; Mon, 3 Mar 2014 11:26:11 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-qc0-f174.google.com with SMTP id x13so4215505qcv.19 for <urn-nid@apps.ietf.org>; Mon, 03 Mar 2014 11:26:08 -0800 (PST)
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:content-type; bh=AGcNt1AUBgqq731y7ddQ/3hhjtl7cT/kXxQjSjlsrZM=; b=bDiYEvNLibm8jPp4eWk3qMY1XvNQlTs565ZItRhOHUsYu3VXxllMM72GqDwkPX43Tl YN47wWDOihx9mG3K84MnxkfYd4gJ3ZnMT0M58+L4Yr1OytAO6sW8Q50ZqgxSw72+eK8V TqvFRwDRXbGjoBUxwjM0vPN2ejDpwDlGw2kzJiLVKnms8jZSsSUuGQRCZ126qPEfxw6g d64chvZbcxc8IavSp7h1x+9+VmLHOU7ZHx2kBiwcq2eXgq2NT616680l+DQ9KdifOg0Y G6M4DeBjeJZ7kYd9hBbNVKNmB0ltsGUijQfQXJIuI8GPb7rK9l5BB5QeeZPMGelpCOhb FiWg==
X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlUQx5XCTUvWNYTFbggNxJz0u47o+7+yCqgYcRAbU9lSRBKo3uc9ZGCQpdmBupbUrKIv5QK
X-Received: by 10.140.92.213 with SMTP id b79mr4083790qge.108.1393874768282; Mon, 03 Mar 2014 11:26:08 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-qa0-f48.google.com (mail-qa0-f48.google.com [209.85.216.48]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id v2sm41349821qat.3.2014.03.03.11.26.07 for <urn-nid@apps.ietf.org> (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 03 Mar 2014 11:26:07 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-qa0-f48.google.com with SMTP id m5so3273484qaj.35 for <urn-nid@apps.ietf.org>; Mon, 03 Mar 2014 11:26:07 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 10.224.132.65 with SMTP id a1mr26016363qat.69.1393874767388; Mon, 03 Mar 2014 11:26:07 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.229.91.72 with HTTP; Mon, 3 Mar 2014 11:25:47 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <CAF_7JxB046x5zZOsjV+VocasxXyVDjJqgdcN7h3mmXxizmu53A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF_7JxASOJEKwZ_XAohHwqVjaDz5zqqbG349dCNiQHRh+nnHxw@mail.gmail.com> <201402061916.s16JG0J64392388@shell01.TheWorld.com> <CAF_7JxAsn7StRvXf8B+dPpu8a97XACH+DAf8ftZN6OVFkJmXkg@mail.gmail.com> <CAF_7JxB046x5zZOsjV+VocasxXyVDjJqgdcN7h3mmXxizmu53A@mail.gmail.com>
From: Pierre-Anthony Lemieux <pal@sandflow.com>
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2014 11:25:47 -0800
Message-ID: <CAF_7JxDoCws8JCLSwikFgoSGp-c+fJQPXULEXzdPPhr1uN6-kg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Application for a formal URN NID ("EIDR")
To: "urn-nid@apps.ietf.org" <urn-nid@apps.ietf.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/urn-nid/LVg8x5iNn6DR0D_vU_vfrwnJSJM
X-BeenThere: urn-nid@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: discussion of new namespace identifiers for URNs <urn-nid.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/urn-nid>, <mailto:urn-nid-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/urn-nid/>
List-Post: <mailto:urn-nid@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:urn-nid-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/urn-nid>, <mailto:urn-nid-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2014 19:26:15 -0000
> I plan to update the I-D when the submission window reopens. Just an FYI. Revised I-D posted. See [1] [1] http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-pal-eidr-urn/ Best, -- Pierre On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 5:09 PM, Pierre-Anthony Lemieux <pal@sandflow.com> wrote: > Good morning/evening, > > Please find attached a revised application for the formal "EIDR" URN > NID. The revised application is intended to address the comments > received on the list. > > Some highlights: > > - the introduction was expanded to provide more details on DOI Names, > EIDR Identifiers and their relationship. > - the EIDR-URN syntax was refactored to focus on EIDR Identifiers, and > not DOI Names in general. > - the EIDR Identifier prefix and suffix character sets are now > explicitly specified to remove potential ambiguities in mapping them > to the URN character set > - the HTTP response to a resolution request to the ISO 26324 > Registration Authority is now specified > > I plan to update the I-D when the submission window reopens. > > Thanks again to the commenters. > > Best, > > -- Pierre > > On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 6:07 PM, Pierre-Anthony Lemieux <pal@sandflow.com> wrote: >> Hi Ted and Dale, >> >> Thanks for the detailed comments, which I am in the process of >> addressing. In the meantime, some additional background and >> clarification on the request. >> >> The requested EIDR NID is not intended to accommodate any and all DOI >> Names, but specifically DOI Names allocated by EIDR organization, i.e. >> DOI Names with a prefix assigned to EIDR organization. This means that >> (a) EIDR organization essentially controls the syntax of the EIDR >> Identifiers, e.g. add check codes and constrain it to the ASCII set, >> and (b) the NID is specifically intended for audiovisual works. The >> fact that EIDR Identifiers are valid DOI Names ensures persistence, >> uniqueness and an open resolution infrastructure. >> >> Currently, EIDR Identifiers use the 10.5240 prefix for audiovisual >> works. The idea is to leave the door open for additional prefixes (and >> corresponding suffixes) to be defined in the future (with EIDR NID >> specification being updated accordingly). In all cases, these prefixes >> and suffixes would be defined and controlled by EIDR organization. >> >> So, if an implementation receives an EIDR-NSS with an unknown prefix, >> it can still accept it, treating it as an opaque (case insensitive) >> identifier (with the option of resolving it as generic DOI Name.) If >> the prefix is known, additional processing can occur, e.g. error >> detection in the case of the 10.5240 prefix. >> >> Does this makes sense? I assume it is acceptable to reply cc'ing the >> reflector. If not, I am happy to chat offline. >> >> Best, >> >> -- Pierre >> >> On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 11:16 AM, Dale R. Worley <worley@ariadne.com> wrote: >>> If there's a difference between EIDR and DOI, you ought to make that >>> clear. The two terms are used throughout the document and I vaguely >>> assumed that they are the same. Actually, the underlying problem is >>> that you write the document assuming that the reader is thoroughly >>> familiar with EIDR's, DOI's, and the like. Start with enough tutorial >>> so that someone who has never heard of either before (me) will have a >>> clear understanding of what is going on. >>> >>>> From: Ted Hardie <ted.ietf@gmail.com> >>>> >>>> EIDR-NSS = DOI-PREFIX ":" DOI-SUFFIX >>>> >>>> This would seem to imply that any DOI prefix may be >>>> encountered and that this NID could be used with any >>>> registered DOI. IF that were the intent, I would >>>> suggest registering the namespace "DOI" instead. I >>>> understand that the DOI folks have consciously chosen not >>>> to do that(cf: http://www.doi.org/factsheets/DOIIdentifierSpecs.html), >>>> though, so I suspect your intent is to limit this to a subset >>>> of DOIs. Is that correct? Is it essentially limited to 10.5240? >>>> If not, how will the appropriate subset be identified? >>> >>> If the NID is to provide an encoding for all DOI names, then it should >>> be named "doi". But if the DOI people have decided that it is not a >>> good thing to provide a NID for all DOI names, then: >>> >>> - the NID should be "eidr" >>> >>> - the syntax should not give a DOI-PREFIX, because that will *always* >>> be "10.5240", and there's no point including a long invariant string >>> in the syntax >>> >>> Fundamentally, you need to determine if the DOI people are >>> fundamentally against mapping DOI names into URNs, or whether they >>> just don't want to put in the work (and you are actually doing the job >>> for them). >>> >>> Also, if you are thinking of providing a NID that can encompass all >>> DOIs, you have to worry about character sets. According to Wikipedia, >>> "Most legal Unicode characters are allowed in these strings", whereas >>> the %-encoding system can only represent ASCII characters. >>> >>>> where DOI-PREFIX and DOI-SUFFIX are DOI Name prefix and suffix, >>>> respectively, translated into canonical NSS format according to >>>> [RFC2141]. DOI Name syntax is specified in [ISO26234]. >>> >>> What you mean to say is something like: A DOI name consists of a >>> prefix and a suffix, which are character strings [a fact the reader >>> didn't know before]. They are translated into the DOI-PREFIX and >>> DOI-SUFFIX by replacing all characters which are not XXX with >>> corresponding %-escapes. (See RFC 2141 section 2.2.) >>> >>> Exactly what the set XXX is needs to be specified with some care. >>> Section 2.2 specifies that all characters that may not appear in URNs >>> *at all* must be escaped. But of course, ":" may appear in URNs and >>> by that specification need not be escaped. OTOH, if ":" appears in a >>> prefix or suffix, you very well want it escaped. I'm pretty sure that >>> you want XXX to be <pchar> as defined in RFC 3986 (the infamous >>> "Uniform Resource Identifier (URI): Generic Syntax"). >>> >>> Also, you are depending on the fact that EIDR suffixes consist of >>> ASCII characters, which can be represented by %-escapes (whereas DOI >>> suffixes can contain Unicode characters, which can't). >>> >>> NIDs are case-insensitive (RFC 2141 section 5), but usually are >>> presented in lower case. >>> >>>> EIDR-SUFFIX = 5*5(4*4HEXDIG "-") CHECK >>> >>> You can just say >>> >>> EIDR-SUFFIX = 5(4HEXDIG "-") CHECK >>> >>>> Identifier persistence considerations: >>>> >>>> As a DOI Name, the persistence of EIDR-NSS is guaranteed by the >>>> ISO 26324 Registration Authority. A DOI Name remains valid >>>> indefinitely. >>> >>> It would be clearer if you said something like >>> >>> The ISO 26324 Registration Authority assigns DOI Names to >>> works(?). A DOI Name remains valid indefinitely. As a >>> consequence, the URN derived from a DOI Name remains valid >>> indefinitely. >>> >>> Similar editing of the other items in this section would be helpful. >>> >>> I can't quite put my finger on what seems to be the problem with the >>> writing. I *think* the problem is that the text is written from the >>> point of view of someone who is thoroughly familiar with DOIs/EIDRs, >>> to the point where it never really has to be said what they are *for* >>> or how they work, whereas the correct way to write these sections is >>> from the point of view of someone who is familiar with URNs but has >>> never heard of a DOI before. "We are talking about URNs that look >>> like this: ... These URNs are used to specify DOIs, which are used in >>> XXX industry to designate YYYs. DOIs are assigned to YYYs by ZZZ." >>> >>> In the above paragraph, the sentence starts with "As a DOI Name...", >>> which is actually trying to leverage that the reader *already >>> understands* how DOI Names work. >>> >>>> As a DOI Name, the resolution of EIDR-NSS is handled by the ISO >>>> 26324 Registration Authority. >>>> >>>> The ISO 26324 Registration Authority operates a web service that >>>> allows an EIDR-NSS to be resolved by issuing an HTTP GET request >>>> to the following URI: >>>> >>>> "http://doi.org/" DOI-PREFIX "/" DOI-SUFFIX >>> >>> As written, this doesn't specify anything, because you can apply that >>> process to any alleged EIDR. In order to make this meaningful, you >>> have to specify what the format of the HTTP *response* is and the >>> significance of the elements of the response. (Presumably there is an >>> ISO standard you can reference here.) >>> >>> Dale
- Application for a formal URN NID ("EIDR") Pierre-Anthony Lemieux
- Re: Application for a formal URN NID ("EIDR") Ted Hardie
- Re: Application for a formal URN NID ("EIDR") Dale R. Worley
- Re: Application for a formal URN NID ("EIDR") Pierre-Anthony Lemieux
- Re: Application for a formal URN NID ("EIDR") Dale R. Worley
- Re: Application for a formal URN NID ("EIDR") Ted Hardie
- Re: Application for a formal URN NID ("EIDR") Pierre-Anthony Lemieux
- Re: Application for a formal URN NID ("EIDR") Pierre-Anthony Lemieux