Rationale for urn: requested [was: [URN] draft-ietf-urn-nid-req-01.txt]
Dan Connolly <connolly@w3.org> Sat, 29 March 1997 08:07 UTC
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Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 02:07:00 -0600
From: Dan Connolly <connolly@w3.org>
Organization: World Wide Web Consortium
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To: Leslie Daigle <leslie@bunyip.com>
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Subject: Rationale for urn: requested [was: [URN] draft-ietf-urn-nid-req-01.txt]
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Leslie Daigle wrote: >If you have an idea of a specific > paragraph that belongs in a specific document, do _please_ make the > suggestion to the list. I suggest that section 2. "Syntax" of ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-urn-syntax-04.txt reflect the rationale for the urn: prefix. I don't have specific wording to suggest because I don't understand the rationale. Your message is the closest thing I've seen to evidence to support this design. (Thank you! Finally!) But... > Specifically, there were people who said they _needed_ the syntactic > cue for their purposes of using URNs, and no one who said they could > not deal with it. Sigh... I can sympathize with this. I'm guilty of chairing enough meetings with this sort of compromise. But I really don't like it, and I want to be really sure that the choices were carefully considered, and that the resolution is explicitly written down in the specs. > Some of the desire for having the syntactic cue are for resolution > reasons (e.g., being able to hand that _class_ of identifiers to a specific > proxy that knows about existing RDS's), I find this idea of a urn: proxy worrisome: the intent of the URI design was that clients should be able to send _all_ unknown URI schemes to a "default proxy." That Netscape 2.x, for example, recognizes and proxies urn: but not isbn: is a hack and a kludge. > and some are for weighting > clues (e.g., prefer URNs to URLs). _Yes_, you could keep a table fo which > identifier was which type, but that's an implementation answer, and does > not seem to be what general concensus said people wanted. You can also keep these sorts of "hints" outside the identifier. For example, HTML has separate attributes for HREF= and URN=. So I don't find any of that evidence compelling. I haven't read the entire URN-WG archive, but I have read much of it, plus all of the following: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-urn-syntax-04.txt http://www.acl.lanl.gov/URN/http_res.txt http://www.bunyip.com/research/ietf/urn-bof/urnframework.txt http://www.netlib.org/utk/projects/rcds/rcds-tr/ and a bunch of other stuff, and I haven't found these implementors' claims that the urn: cue is necessary or even useful. > This issue was specifically brought up at the meeting in San Jose, and > was documented in the minutes. See > > http://www.bunyip.com/research/ietf/urn-ietf/sanjose.txt As I wrote in another message: I did that: but the minutes only state the conclusion. They don't give any of the evidence or reasons. And anyway, in the IETF, the consensus at an IETF meeting isn't binding: all official business is conducted via email. (At least that's my understanding. Please correct me if I'm wrong.) > (by the way -- http://www.bunyip.com/research/ietf/urn-ietf also > contains the text of the group's charter). Thanks for the URL! I'd like to see a few more of them flying around here. Finding drafts etc. in email archives is kinda tedious. -- Dan Connolly, W3C Architecture Domain Lead <connolly@w3.org> +1 512 310-2971 http://www.w3.org/People/Connolly/ PGP:EDF8 A8E4 F3BB 0F3C FD1B 7BE0 716C FF21
- Re: [URN] draft-ietf-urn-nid-req-01.txt Dan Connolly
- Re: [URN] draft-ietf-urn-nid-req-01.txt Patrik Faltstrom
- Re: [URN] draft-ietf-urn-nid-req-01.txt Dan Connolly
- Re: [URN] draft-ietf-urn-nid-req-01.txt Ron Daniel, Jr.
- Re: [URN] draft-ietf-urn-nid-req-01.txt Karen R. Sollins
- Re: [URN] draft-ietf-urn-nid-req-01.txt Dan Connolly
- Re: [URN] draft-ietf-urn-nid-req-01.txt Dan Connolly
- [URN] Re: Hierarchical ownership of name spaces Leslie Daigle
- [URN] Hierarchical ownership of name spaces Daniel LaLiberte
- Rationale for urn: requested [was: [URN] draft-ie… Dan Connolly
- Re: [URN] draft-ietf-urn-nid-req-01.txt Leslie Daigle
- Re: [URN] draft-ietf-urn-nid-req-01.txt Leslie Daigle
- Re: [URN] draft-ietf-urn-nid-req-01.txt Leslie Daigle
- Re: [URN] draft-ietf-urn-nid-req-01.txt Leslie Daigle
- [URN] Re: draft-ietf-urn-nid-req-01.txt Cynthia Clark
- [URN] draft-ietf-urn-nid-req-01.txt Daniel LaLiberte
- RE[2]: [URN] draft-ietf-urn-nid-req-01.txt Renato Iannella
- RE: [URN] draft-ietf-urn-nid-req-01.txt Leslie Daigle
- RE: [URN] draft-ietf-urn-nid-req-01.txt Jul,Erik
- [URN] draft-ietf-urn-nid-req-01.txt Patrik Faltstrom
- [URN] Re: Hierarchical ownership of name spaces Daniel LaLiberte