[urn] Where I think we stand
John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com> Sun, 03 August 2014 18:36 UTC
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Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2014 14:36:31 -0400
From: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
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Subject: [urn] Where I think we stand
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Hi. I have read, but deferred responding to, the notes posted in the last two weeks in the hope of getting a revised version of the "separation" document together to reflect the "separate semantics but preserve syntax and URN identity as part of the URI family" conclusion I think we reached in Toronto. As a preview, I've changed the tentative title to reflect that change: it now "URN Semantics Separate from Generic URIs". If anyone has a better idea, please suggest it. I'm going to describe it as "the separation draft" below and for the time being. The working draft version is now in the hands (or at least mailboxes) of Andy, Barry, and Peter. I'll post it as soon as they give me the go-ahead or minutes are posted that I can check the changes against. Unless they advise/instruct otherwise, the next version will be draft-ietf-urnbis-urns-are-not-uris-02 even though that is not what it about any more. One of my conclusions from both the recent email threads and the Toronto discussions is that there is considerable disagreement among usually-sensible people about what 3986 actually says. Some of us believe the comparison "ladder" is sequential and normative with the only important choice being how far one goes up it, others that it is just a list of example types of comparisons about which applications can reasonably pick and choose. Some of us see some of the examples as restrictive, others as just examples and so on. Either as a result of those differences or for other reasons, some of us see 3986 as semantic-laden, others see it as containing almost no normative semantics but merely discussions of how some fields might be used. The observation that many (perhaps most) implementations of generic URIs do not pay much attention to 3986's semantic strictures (or specific URN syntax strictures there), but instead either rely on 3986 syntax only or on syntax closer to the "scheme:<stuff>" model doesn't "prove" those constraints are not present (or that they are), only that we are even more justified than we might be otherwise in pushing them aside (if they exist) rather than feeling constrained by them. I don't see any way to resolve those differences in readings other than to make them irrelevant (which the "don't worry about the semantics" approach seems to me about) or to do a complete revision of 3986 that would eliminate any ambiguity. To me, there are three problems with the latter: it is far out of scope for this WG, it would (at best) take a long time, and it would require dealing with other groups who want to reinterpret or obsolete 3986. Perhaps the important thing is that, if one believes that 3986 imposes constraints on things that the WG believes need to be done with URN, then the separation draft is important. If it does not, then it is at worst harmless. As was pointed out in Toronto, we don't need to publish the thing, only to have it handy for later consideration of whether it is needed and as a ready defensive measure if someone claims that another URNbis document is unacceptable because it somehow violates 3986. I'll respond separately to Keith's and Leslie's later "Preferences" notes. john
- [urn] Where I think we stand John C Klensin