Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv6-in-mobile-networks-02
Rajeev Koodli <rkoodli@cisco.com> Fri, 16 April 2010 18:16 UTC
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Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 11:15:28 -0700
Subject: Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv6-in-mobile-networks-02
From: Rajeev Koodli <rkoodli@cisco.com>
To: teemu.savolainen@nokia.com, cb.list6@gmail.com
CC: v6ops@ops.ietf.org
Message-ID: <C7EDF750.534E%rkoodli@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv6-in-mobile-networks-02
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Hi Teemu, On 4/16/10 7:05 AM, "teemu.savolainen@nokia.com" <teemu.savolainen@nokia.com> wrote: > My suggestion is to provide hosts with a (private) IPv4 address always when > dual-stack type of connection has been established. There are several > documents that describe solutions for solving private IPv4 address shortage on > the network side (DS-Lite, GI-DS-Lite, L2NAT and probably more). Well, those are options for some. But the main point here is that IPv4 address is tied to the corresponding PDN/PDP. The network may want to reclaim the PDN/PDP due to session timers. So, when the PDN/PDP is deleted, so is the IP address. IMO, we cannot disallow this. > > In the discussion during the winter the conclusion was, afaik, that host > changes should be avoided. > > Mandating hosts to change its address allocation method used in an access > technology, and even to include IPv4 on-demand (with deferred DHCPv4 and also > "quick" release) is a significant host change, imho. Even in the case handset > has DHCP for WiFi (and not all handsets have WiFi). Even more in the split-UE > case, where DHCP is running on a separate device (such as laptop). As I mentioned in a previous email, Deferred IP address allocation is specified for use in LTE. If 3G handsets do not do DHCP, it does not mean LTE handsets should not, right? Thanks, -Rajeev > > Best regards, > > Teemu > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: ext Cameron Byrne [mailto:cb.list6@gmail.com] >> Sent: 16. huhtikuuta 2010 16:16 >> To: Savolainen Teemu (Nokia-D/Tampere) >> Cc: rkoodli@cisco.com; v6ops@ops.ietf.org >> Subject: Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv6-in-mobile- >> networks-02 >> >> On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 2:25 AM, <teemu.savolainen@nokia.com> wrote: >>> Hi Rajeev, all, >>> >>> I'm worried about the on-demand DHCP based address allocation >> descriptions herein. >>> >>> Majority of 3GPP devices do not implement DHCP at all today for 3GPP >> access, because it is optional and gives very little when compared to >> mandatory PPP-like address allocation during bearer establishment >> procedures. >>> >>> Introduction of DHCP for significant host population (to get >> statistical savings) just for the deferred IPv4 address allocation >> feature does not sound right thing to do for me. >>> >>> We should be adding IPv6 features to hosts, not IPv4 features. >>> >> >> Teemu, many handsets have DHCP for the WiFi. I agree with you in >> principle somewhat (many transition steps add IPv4 functions), but i >> believe the reality makes your point moot in many relevant cases. I >> strongly feel the transient on-demand IPv4 connection that Rajeev has >> suggested is very useful in IPv4 constrained environments that require >> always-on connectivity (IMS ...). I believe the on-demand IPv4 >> address can help address the IPv4 literal issue that is described in >> draft-wing-behave-http-ip-address-literals, similar to a >> dial-on-demand function... the handset always has a path to IPv4, but >> the PDP is only setup when a packet needs to be transmitted. >> >> Prior to release 7, i believe this is easy to control (give back ipv4 >> quickly) since we can configure the handset to terminate idle IPv4 PDP >> quickly while the IPv6 is always up. Once to release 8 and we have >> dual-stack bearers, i am not sure the best way to address the >> on-demand use of a transient IPv4 address. >> >> Would you suggest the EPS bearer be re-established / re-negotiated to >> deliver the IPv4 and IPv6 addresses over PCO- IE? Is it possible to >> send / request PCO-IE without dropping the original EPS bearer? >> >> Cameron >> >> ps. This type of discussion is why the WG should accept this draft >> >> >> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Teemu >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org] On >>>> Behalf Of ext Rajeev Koodli >>>> Sent: 16. huhtikuuta 2010 01:05 >>>> To: v6ops@ops.ietf.org >>>> Subject: FW: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv6-in- >> mobile- >>>> networks-02 >>>> >>>> >>>> Hello folks, >>>> >>>> I was asked at the Anaheim meeting to clarify the intended audience >> for >>>> this >>>> ID, which I have done in the Introduction; this document can be a >>>> useful >>>> reference for service providers and network designers. >>>> This ID does not propose any new protocols or suggest any new >> protocol >>>> work. >>>> >>>> I also got a good review from Mohamed Boucadier (thanks!) which I >> have >>>> addressed. >>>> >>>> It seemed there was good interest that this ID is useful. >>>> >>>> So, Chairs: how do we proceed? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> -Rajeev >>>> >>>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-koodli-ipv6-in-mobile-networks-02 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------ Forwarded Message >>>> From: IETF I-D Submission Tool <idsubmission@ietf.org> >>>> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 16:30:59 -0700 (PDT) >>>> To: Rajeev Koodli <rkoodli@cisco.com> >>>> Subject: New Version Notification for >>>> draft-koodli-ipv6-in-mobile-networks-02 >>>> >>>> >>>> A new version of I-D, draft-koodli-ipv6-in-mobile-networks-02.txt >> has >>>> been >>>> successfully submitted by Rajeev Koodli and posted to the IETF >>>> repository. >>>> >>>> Filename: draft-koodli-ipv6-in-mobile-networks >>>> Revision: 02 >>>> Title: Mobile Networks Considerations for IPv6 Deployment >>>> Creation_date: 2010-04-14 >>>> WG ID: Independent Submission >>>> Number_of_pages: 15 >>>> >>>> Abstract: >>>> Mobile Internet access from smartphones and other mobile devices is >>>> accelerating the exhaustion of IPv4 addresses. IPv6 is widely seen >>>> as crucial for the continued operation and growth of the Internet, >>>> and in particular, it is critical in mobile networks. This document >>>> discusses the issues that arise when deploying IPv6 in mobile >>>> networks. Hence, this document can be a useful reference for >> service >>>> providers and network designers. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The IETF Secretariat. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------ End of Forwarded Message >>>> >>> >>> >>>
- FW: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Rajeev Koodli
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Fred Baker
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Cameron Byrne
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Brian E Carpenter
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: FW: New Version Notification for draft-koodli… Roman.Arcea
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… teemu.savolainen
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Cameron Byrne
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Rémi Després
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… teemu.savolainen
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… jouni korhonen
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Koodli, Rajeev
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Rémi Després
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Cameron Byrne
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Cameron Byrne
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Koodli, Rajeev
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Simon Perreault
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Cameron Byrne
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Fred Baker
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Rémi Després
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Simon Perreault
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Koodli, Rajeev
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Fred Baker
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Rajeev Koodli
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Cameron Byrne
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Rajeev Koodli
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Fred Baker
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Rajeev Koodli
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Rajeev Koodli
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Fred Baker
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Rajeev Koodli
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Rémi Després
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Jouni
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… teemu.savolainen
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… teemu.savolainen
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… teemu.savolainen
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Cameron Byrne
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… joel jaeggli
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Cameron Byrne
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… teemu.savolainen
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Rémi Després
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Rajeev Koodli
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Rémi Després
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Rémi Després
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Cameron Byrne
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Simon Perreault
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Fred Baker
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Rajeev Koodli
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Rajeev Koodli
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Rajeev Koodli
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… jouni korhonen
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… jouni korhonen
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… teemu.savolainen
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Rajeev Koodli
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… teemu.savolainen
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Rémi Després
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Rémi Després
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Rémi Després
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Cameron Byrne
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Rémi Després
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Rajeev Koodli
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… Rajeev Koodli
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-koodli-ipv… joel jaeggli