IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [v6ops] "The Internet is for End Users" (Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-prefix-per-host-07.txt)

Tim Chown <Tim.Chown@jisc.ac.uk> Thu, 17 August 2017 16:04 UTC

Return-Path: <tim.chown@jisc.ac.uk>
X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1DD51321D0 for <v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 09:04:05 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -5.31
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.31 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=-1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=jisc.ac.uk
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wbcHlBywk52d for <v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 09:04:02 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from eu-smtp-delivery-189.mimecast.com (eu-smtp-delivery-189.mimecast.com [207.82.80.189]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 818471321A7 for <v6ops@ietf.org>; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 09:04:02 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=jisc.ac.uk; s=mimecast20170213; t=1502985840; h=from:subject:date:message-id:to:cc:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:references; bh=unlHJ1tkx1jfzM1EKaxl4mp/aQOata5YoB3sviuhi08=; b=AT9T/jpDToTaF/B9/piyNCwZ3y4g85y1X6t0QAB7jQ14Ebvr2L1+lFo0BQKbn5pXAdrqcr/W12rtCCnachacw2ESKiN2ILRIC2ftz2J192lTmOmWX4M8ipEF1CvIUO8wvj69UKlR7XoOg1+Weh9VsUtZ0bFcabmNm+AdA85iTa4=
Received: from EUR02-VE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-ve1eur02lp0056.outbound.protection.outlook.com [213.199.154.56]) (Using TLS) by eu-smtp-1.mimecast.com with ESMTP id uk-mta-128--LSnHWdWPpak26-H33iTog-1; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 17:03:57 +0100
Received: from AM3PR07MB1140.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.163.188.14) by AM3PR07MB260.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.242.17.156) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P256) id 15.1.1362.12; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 16:03:55 +0000
Received: from AM3PR07MB1140.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::9447:453:3e6d:c99a]) by AM3PR07MB1140.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::9447:453:3e6d:c99a%13]) with mapi id 15.01.1385.003; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 16:03:55 +0000
From: Tim Chown <Tim.Chown@jisc.ac.uk>
To: Timothy Winters <twinters@iol.unh.edu>
CC: Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo@google.com>, Simon Hobson <linux@thehobsons.co.uk>, v6ops list <v6ops@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [v6ops] "The Internet is for End Users" (Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-prefix-per-host-07.txt)
Thread-Index: AQHTFwPkIR0hUkJRmUWLZheKIbsHcqKH3C2AgAB4YwCAAALAgIAABzkAgABYSAA=
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 16:03:55 +0000
Message-ID: <6FF0E188-7F66-4494-A6D2-59DDAAB2B92B@jisc.ac.uk>
References: <CAO42Z2xwLdWo1TXeQbtLAYkE4X8QNU-V15EeEKaB3rFCPCm5kg@mail.gmail.com> <CAKD1Yr2XO2dzg1zmtxmOy9z4oMA42avJJ6zLv5rvDy4tiqjUag@mail.gmail.com> <A950E23E-4EA5-4EFD-88AE-1B82B27ED33C@jisc.ac.uk> <CAKD1Yr0jSoWKi=jXaLeKvGH8-fT=+jin2gw3ZMhVFH1266q8fQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAOSSMjV5yv3+gKhK4xEZOA7QUHL1u=E2UxyGCyB9yURPWfsBJg@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAOSSMjV5yv3+gKhK4xEZOA7QUHL1u=E2UxyGCyB9yURPWfsBJg@mail.gmail.com>
Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273)
x-originating-ip: [194.82.140.195]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; AM3PR07MB260; 20:sJr6/TAhhJTdiz8JwV/BJe3OTgtNSAyzZes8v+pdC75Fpa1Dp84faZsmRFLeCm15WZgYZiq/BYqsMLjgYEGHSvOaulpijeJQSC3cKB+3fbb2EHIoa/w6e4k/TBlYgA03p21s7wwxPI5+TUgvPv80Anu4n2AwgLjoXPZW8Q7iWEE=
x-ms-exchange-antispam-srfa-diagnostics: SSOS;
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 57cc1be5-0d50-49ea-7166-08d4e5899031
x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(300000500095)(300135000095)(300000501095)(300135300095)(22001)(300000502095)(300135100095)(2017030254152)(300000503095)(300135400095)(2017052603157)(201703131423075)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(300000504095)(300135200095)(300000505095)(300135600095)(300000506095)(300135500095); SRVR:AM3PR07MB260;
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM3PR07MB260:
x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(274715658323672)(278428928389397)(211936372134217)(153496737603132);
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <AM3PR07MB2602504DAB1F27492F9CE1DD6830@AM3PR07MB260.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(100000700101)(100105000095)(100000701101)(100105300095)(100000702101)(100105100095)(6040450)(601004)(2401047)(8121501046)(5005006)(100000703101)(100105400095)(10201501046)(93006095)(93001095)(3002001)(920507026)(6041248)(20161123562025)(20161123558100)(20161123560025)(201703131423075)(201702281529075)(201702281528075)(201703061421075)(201703061406153)(20161123564025)(20161123555025)(6072148)(201708071742011)(100000704101)(100105200095)(100000705101)(100105500095); SRVR:AM3PR07MB260; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(100000800101)(100110000095)(100000801101)(100110300095)(100000802101)(100110100095)(100000803101)(100110400095)(100000804101)(100110200095)(100000805101)(100110500095); SRVR:AM3PR07MB260;
x-forefront-prvs: 0402872DA1
x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(6009001)(377454003)(24454002)(189002)(199003)(2906002)(101416001)(6436002)(53376002)(3280700002)(7736002)(6246003)(305945005)(6486002)(6506006)(53936002)(50226002)(53366004)(42882006)(8936002)(2950100002)(76176999)(50986999)(93886005)(110136004)(2171002)(6916009)(66066001)(229853002)(81156014)(25786009)(81166006)(8676002)(36756003)(82746002)(106356001)(34040400001)(4326008)(478600001)(97736004)(53546010)(33656002)(1720100001)(5250100002)(2900100001)(230783001)(72206003)(86362001)(189998001)(99286003)(3846002)(57306001)(74482002)(3660700001)(83716003)(54906002)(6306002)(6512007)(966005)(102836003)(6116002)(105586002)(14454004)(68736007)(5660300001)(493534005); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:AM3PR07MB260; H:AM3PR07MB1140.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en;
spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99
spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM
Content-ID: <FD36EF1D28632F4692B3EAD0074A6189@eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: jisc.ac.uk
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 17 Aug 2017 16:03:55.7740 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 48f9394d-8a14-4d27-82a6-f35f12361205
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM3PR07MB260
X-MC-Unique: -LSnHWdWPpak26-H33iTog-1
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="WINDOWS-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/v6ops/jgS_4tgSYPMle5I47_PUQo8fFO8>
Subject: Re: [v6ops] "The Internet is for End Users" (Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-prefix-per-host-07.txt)
X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: v6ops discussion list <v6ops.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/v6ops>, <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/v6ops/>
List-Post: <mailto:v6ops@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops>, <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 16:04:06 -0000

Hi,

> On 17 Aug 2017, at 11:47, Timothy Winters <twinters@iol.unh.edu> wrote:
> 
> Most operating systems give up if they fail DAD.

For SLAAC, RFC7127 includes a DAD counter in the IID generation algorithm, and specifies how to use that in https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7217#section-6, but has anyone tested whether existing implementations are doing that?

DAD itself failing to detect the duplicate is a separate - but of course important - issue.

Tim 

> Tim
> 
> On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 6:22 AM Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo@google.com> wrote:
> For non-EUI-64 addresses Linux usually retries.
> 
> However, the problem is not so much when DAD works as when it *doesn't work* (e.g., because devices drop multicast when asleep). In that case you end up with duplicate addresses.
> 
> On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 7:12 PM, Tim Chown <Tim.Chown@jisc.ac.uk> wrote:
> > On 17 Aug 2017, at 04:01, Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo@google.com> wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 11:51 AM, Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com> wrote:
> > "If IPv6 IIDs were reduced to something like 32 bits, would any of the
> > above be impacted:
> >
> > - Available and Reliable: No. May have a positive influence, as
> > availability and reliability possibly could be increased, as ND cache
> > resource exhaustion attacks effectiveness would be reduced.
> >
> > Actually the answer here is also "yes, negatively". It means that networks with large numbers of users would become unreliable because of IID collisions. There are networks that run 10k or 20k nodes on a single subnet. Large corporate networks are an example, or large conferences such as MWC.
> 
> Is there info anywhere on what the common OSes do when they encounter a DAD failure - do they give up or try a new tentative address?
> 
> Tim
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> v6ops mailing list
> v6ops@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops
> -- 
> Now offering testing for SDN applications and controllers in our SDN switch test bed. Learn more today http://bit.ly/SDN_IOLPR
>

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email