Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis
"Templin, Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> Wed, 23 May 2012 14:39 UTC
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From: "Templin, Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
To: Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net>, Mark Andrews <marka@isc.org>
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 07:38:59 -0700
Thread-Topic: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis
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References: <4FB74456.2090009@gmail.com> <20120519080006.GZ84425@Space.Net> <4FB775A3.1030900@gmail.com> <20120519.141906.74656347.sthaug@nethelp.no> <4FB7A7CC.6060503@gmail.com> <m27gw7eub0.wl%randy@psg.com> <4FB89733.2080106@gmail.com> <20120520140421.9E5A520C611B@drugs.dv.isc.org> <96B542C8-F19D-470D-B648-154946D791A6@kumari.net>
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Cc: "v6ops@ietf.org" <v6ops@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis
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> Can anyone remember *why* the v6 in MTU is 1280 (and please don't say > "Because the RFC says so!"...) You have to reach way back into history to find the reasoning. The first proposal of moving from 576 to 1280 was from Steve Deering in November 1997. Go to: https://www.sixxs.net/archive/docs/ipng-archives/ipng.199711 and search for: (IPng 4802) increasing the IPv6 minimum MTU Remember that IPv6 is a very old protocol, and the history goes way back. Digging the archives can be very revealing. Fred fred.l.templin@boeing.com > -----Original Message----- > From: v6ops-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:v6ops-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Warren Kumari > Sent: Monday, May 21, 2012 7:49 AM > To: Mark Andrews > Cc: v6ops@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis > > [ Top posting / meta questions ] > > So, both my memory and my google-foo are failing me... > > Can anyone remember *why* the v6 in MTU is 1280 (and please don't say > "Because the RFC says so!"...) > > I have some niggling voice in the back of my head making 3GPP noises, but... > > W > > On May 20, 2012, at 10:04 AM, Mark Andrews wrote: > > > > > In message <4FB89733.2080106@gmail.com>, Brian E Carpenter writes: > >> On 2012-05-19 22:26, Randy Bush wrote: > >>>> If you want to send packets of arbitrary size, in any environment > >>>> where PMTUD is impossible or fails, won't you need to always include > >>>> a fragmentation header in every packet greater than 1280? > >>> > >>> see discussion of jumbo frames, commonly 4k or 9k, between consenting > >>> adults on known links > >> > >> Yes indeed, but that isn't the general case. Across the open Internet, > >> I think we have the situation I described. > >> > >> On 2012-05-19 21:16, Gert Doering wrote: > >> > >>>>> UDP packets larger than 1280 bytes > >>>>> Don't do that! > >>> > >>> Tell that to the DNS people. They seem to really like not-using-TCP. > >> > >> Yes, but I understand that DNSSEC more or less dooms that plan anyway. > >> > >> However, I thinks it's true that the only fail-safe solution is to > >> include a frag header if you need to send UDP >1280. > >> > >> Brian > > > > For DNS we just fragment at 1280 using IPV6_USE_MIN_MTU. We were > > thinking about this back in 1998 (draft-ietf-ipngwg-bsd-frag-00.txt) > > which was rolled into the advanced socket api. It took a few more > > years than I would have liked to become RFC and for implementations > > to be available. EDNS was already being developed back then and > > it was obvious that PMTUD wouldn't work for large nameservers even > > if they got the ICMPv6 PTBs. > > > > For DNS there is little to be gained by trying to send any bigger > > packets. > > > > YMMV for other UDP based protocols. > > > > Mark > > > >> Brian > >> _______________________________________________ > >> v6ops mailing list > >> v6ops@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops > > -- > > Mark Andrews, ISC > > 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia > > PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka@isc.org > > _______________________________________________ > > v6ops mailing list > > v6ops@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops > > > > -- > With Feudalism, it's your Count that votes. > > > _______________________________________________ > v6ops mailing list > v6ops@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops
- [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Hemant Singh (shemant)
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Hemant Singh (shemant)
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis STARK, BARBARA H
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Chris Donley
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Hemant Singh (shemant)
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Ole Trøan
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Ole Trøan
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Marc Blanchet
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Templin, Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Cameron Byrne
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Rémi Després
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Warren Kumari
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis james woodyatt
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Templin, Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Weil, Jason
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Alexandre Cassen
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Hemant Singh (shemant)
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Hemant Singh (shemant)
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Simon Perreault
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Ole Trøan
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Templin, Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Hemant Singh (shemant)
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Templin, Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Hesham Soliman
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Wuyts Carl
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Wuyts Carl
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Rémi Després
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Rémi Després
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Rémi Després
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Mark Andrews
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Mark Andrews
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Rémi Després
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Daniel Roesen
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Jean-Francois.TremblayING
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Templin, Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Templin, Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Templin, Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Warren Kumari
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Randy Bush
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Hesham Soliman
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Hemant Singh (shemant)
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Mark Andrews
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Randy Bush
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Templin, Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Hesham Soliman
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Hemant Singh (shemant)
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Cameron Byrne
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Hesham Soliman
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Tassos Chatzithomaoglou
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Hemant Singh (shemant)
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Daniel Roesen
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Hesham Soliman
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Hesham Soliman
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Jean-Francois.TremblayING
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Templin, Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Daniel Roesen
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Templin, Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Jean-Francois.TremblayING
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Templin, Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Jean-Francois.TremblayING
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Templin, Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Jean-Francois.TremblayING
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Templin, Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Templin, Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Mark Andrews
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Shishio Tsuchiya
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Hesham Soliman
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Hesham Soliman
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Mark Andrews
- [v6ops] IPv6 PMTU works?? [proposed TCP MSS text … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Templin, Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] IPv6 PMTU works?? [proposed TCP MSS t… Templin, Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Templin, Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] IPv6 PMTU works?? [proposed TCP MSS t… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] IPv6 PMTU works?? [proposed TCP MSS t… Templin, Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] IPv6 PMTU works?? [proposed TCP MSS t… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] IPv6 PMTU works?? [proposed TCP MSS t… Templin, Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Templin, Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Templin, Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Templin, Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] IPv6 PMTU works?? [proposed TCP MSS t… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Templin, Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Templin, Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Templin, Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Templin, Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] IPv6 PMTU works?? [proposed TCP MSS t… Randy Bush
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Hesham Soliman
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] IPv6 PMTU works?? [proposed TCP MSS t… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis sthaug
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Randy Bush
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis JINMEI Tatuya / 神明達哉
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Mark Andrews
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Warren Kumari
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Simon Perreault
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Rémi Després
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Warren Kumari
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Rajiv Asati (rajiva)
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Templin, Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] proposed TCP MSS text for rfc6204bis Simon Perreault