Re: [v6ops] about LLAs pros/cons static routing - auto/self-configuration of addresses, draft-matthews-v6ops-design-guidelines

"Michael Behringer (mbehring)" <mbehring@cisco.com> Thu, 09 August 2012 11:08 UTC

Return-Path: <mbehring@cisco.com>
X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1C0F21F865E for <v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 9 Aug 2012 04:08:12 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -10.299
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1cYAbhX3UtgQ for <v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 9 Aug 2012 04:08:11 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.86.75]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBC4C21F8639 for <v6ops@ietf.org>; Thu, 9 Aug 2012 04:08:11 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=mbehring@cisco.com; l=1716; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1344510492; x=1345720092; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=ZSxCb1wn1uS3PRxKe1i79Ly2AFigPiaqNtW6E7rQ09Y=; b=H7iKfAqCGLX8g5xdAUC2TJa7JxsN+8/tBEhKhZofNn+unaU8Igq2YaWJ l4V+b+tokD8CFeFFhlIdx05PG7DElXrcwx/XnFNr4VJOMNue7kTlW8eNH iYSHQ3g/0vu4mxeQrF7DBrxqDD7A20wKDyG/hj1Nyl9I9cskQNF1XGZvl g=;
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgEFADiZI1CtJXG+/2dsb2JhbABFhgGydmiBB4IgAQEBAwESARARRRACAQgaAgYZBwICAjAVEAIEAQ0NGodlBgubcY0Zk0mBIY9EMmADll2NFYFmgl8
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.77,739,1336348800"; d="scan'208";a="109939408"
Received: from rcdn-core2-3.cisco.com ([173.37.113.190]) by rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 09 Aug 2012 11:08:11 +0000
Received: from xhc-rcd-x03.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x03.cisco.com [173.37.183.77]) by rcdn-core2-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q79B8BMO004385 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Aug 2012 11:08:11 GMT
Received: from xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com ([169.254.4.3]) by xhc-rcd-x03.cisco.com ([173.37.183.77]) with mapi id 14.02.0298.004; Thu, 9 Aug 2012 06:08:11 -0500
From: "Michael Behringer (mbehring)" <mbehring@cisco.com>
To: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>, Mark ZZZ Smith <markzzzsmith@yahoo.com.au>
Thread-Topic: [v6ops] about LLAs pros/cons static routing - auto/self-configuration of addresses, draft-matthews-v6ops-design-guidelines
Thread-Index: AQHNdhcoykYiOdcqbUOuG8cjgPyM7JdRoHaA//+vXaA=
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2012 11:08:10 +0000
Message-ID: <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF0F4E5159@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com>
References: <501AB97A.7060202@gmail.com> <33FE6FAB-E7D8-4CA7-8C94-933D1BA1DE2F@magma.ca> <501AEB86.5080808@gmail.com> <20120803135243.GU38127@Space.Net> <CAD6AjGSj1qbNYmQR2njwfCPX+=kWVcJRA7T27C-4Yp8czwU9ng@mail.gmail.com> <CD140280-69C6-443B-AC66-3CB1418664E6@magma.ca> <20120806191534.GY38127@Space.Net> <5D908C2E-DC1D-4268-83ED-E9F23A51514F@magma.ca> <1344507004.18219.YahooMailNeo@web32504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <50239553.3010206@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <50239553.3010206@gmail.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-originating-ip: [10.55.194.26]
x-tm-as-product-ver: SMEX-10.2.0.1135-7.000.1014-19096.006
x-tm-as-result: No--23.216400-8.000000-31
x-tm-as-user-approved-sender: No
x-tm-as-user-blocked-sender: No
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
MIME-Version: 1.0
Cc: "v6ops@ietf.org list" <v6ops@ietf.org>, Philip Matthews <philip_matthews@magma.ca>
Subject: Re: [v6ops] about LLAs pros/cons static routing - auto/self-configuration of addresses, draft-matthews-v6ops-design-guidelines
X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: v6ops discussion list <v6ops.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/v6ops>, <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/v6ops>
List-Post: <mailto:v6ops@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops>, <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2012 11:08:12 -0000

> > Traceroute would work for you,
> 
> It shouldn't, because intermediate routers should discard ICMPv6 packets
> with LL source addresses, according to RFC 4291 section 2.5.6.
> 
> The fact that they don't is an implementation error, and we shouldn't rely
> on that. ICMPv6 should never be sourced from a LL address.

I can confirm that at least one implementation (ours) responds using a global address (from a loopback), not the link local. 

> 
>     Brian
> 
> however outside of your network, other people would be querying their
> own version of 0.8.e.f.ip6.arpa., hiding your interface and router names.
> This idea might be useful to assist with troubleshooting for a "Using Only
> Link-Local Addressing Inside an
> IPv6 Network" http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-behringer-lla-only-01
> scenario.

The concern is that for ICMP echo reply, traceroute, etc the router will respond with a global address, which is a loopback address (in the absence of global addresses on the interface). You can therefore see the router, but not the interface (unless RFC5837 is implemented, which is generally not the case today). 

So I can't see how this helps troubleshooting? (I must be misunderstanding something here)

Michael