Re: RFC queue documents stuck on a normative reference

[Brian E Carpenter <[e-mail]>]

Opinion: for something that has already been approved by the IESG,
this would count as a substantive change - so I would recommend a mini
WG last call followed by a formal note to the AD, who should run it
past the IESG before a formal note is sent to the RFC Editor.

The reason I think it's substantive is that we tend to consider
normative reference problems worthy of a DISCUSS during IESG
evaluation. (Hmm. Not mentioned in draft-iesg-discuss-criteria-00.txt)

    Brian


[e-mail] wrote:
> Thomas,
> 
> What is the process to change something from Normative to Informative?
> Can the authors do it themselves, do WG chairs need to be involved,
> does the IESG need to be informed?  I agree with you that many of
> the Normative refs could be considered Informative.
> 
> thanks,
> John
> 
> 
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail]]On
>>Behalf Of ext Thomas Narten
>>Sent: 27 July, 2005 20:47
>>To: [e-mail]
>>Subject: RFC queue documents stuck on a normative reference 
>>
>>
>>I happened to be looking at the RFC queue recently, and noticed that
>>there are a number of documents currently blocked, pending the
>>availability of a normative reference.
>>
>>I'd encourage you to look for documents that you are responsible for
>>(i.e., those in your WG!)  and determine what can be done to get the
>>normative references satisfied. Your options are:
>>
>>  - remove the normative reference, i.e., by tweaking the text to
>>    ensure that the way the reference is used, it is informational
>>    rather than normative. (note: this usually means more than just
>>    moving the reference to the "informative references" section; the
>>    wording surrounding the use of the reference needs to be of an
>>    informational nature.) Also, folk really should look at this
>>    option carefully. In my experience reviewing documents, I've seen
>>    plenty of "normative" references that IMO didn't need to be
>>    normative. See section 1.1 of RFC 3967 for some additional wording
>>    on the topic of normative vs. informative.
>>
>>  - followup with the stuck document and help to get it completed and
>>    published.
>>
>>There's some 65 documents here. And some of been waiting many many
>>_months_.
>>
>>To figure out what is going on for document X, go to
>>www.rfc-editor.org/queue.html, and see what document X is waiting
>>on. Then go see its status, etc. (You may need to do this
>>recursively.)
>>
>>You might also find http://rtg.ietf.org/~fenner/iesg/rfc-deps.pdf
>>useful, as it shows the normative reference relationships graphically.
>>
>>Thomas
>>
>>Days	ID name
>>====    =======
>>2	draft-ietf-enum-msg
>>16	draft-zeilenga-ldap-assert
>>16	draft-zeilenga-ldap-readentry
>>17	draft-zeilenga-ldap-t-f
>>26	draft-rescorla-dtls
>>27	draft-ietf-sipping-cc-conferencing
>>32	draft-ietf-mip6-mipv6-mib
>>32	draft-ietf-simple-xcap
>>34	draft-ietf-ipcdn-docsisevent-mib
>>34	draft-ietf-mmusic-sdp-media-label
>>47	draft-ietf-ops-mib-review-guidelines
>>66	draft-ietf-msec-gsakmp-sec
>>69	draft-ietf-l3vpn-mpls-vpn-mib
>>74	draft-ietf-aaa-diameter-cc
>>102	draft-ietf-ipsec-rfc2401bis
>>110	draft-ietf-ipsec-esp-v3
>>110	draft-ietf-msec-mikey-dhhmac
>>110	draft-ietf-sipping-kpml
>>115	draft-ietf-simple-event-filter-funct
>>115	draft-ietf-simple-filter-format
>>117	draft-burmeister-avt-rtcp-feedback-sim
>>117	draft-ietf-avt-rtcp-feedback
>>117	draft-ietf-nsis-rsvp-sec-properties
>>126	draft-ietf-sasl-anon
>>131	draft-ietf-sip-guidelines
>>136	draft-ietf-l2vpn-l2-framework
>>136	draft-ietf-simple-xcap-pidf-manipulation-usage
>>145	draft-ietf-ldapbis-dn
>>145	draft-ietf-ldapbis-filter
>>145	draft-ietf-ldapbis-models
>>151	draft-ietf-simple-xcap-list-usage
>>152	draft-zeilenga-ldup-sync
>>165	draft-ietf-ldapbis-url
>>185	draft-melnikov-imap-disc
>>191	draft-ietf-ipoib-ip-over-infiniband
>>194	draft-ietf-ipsec-esn-addendum
>>194	draft-ietf-ipsec-rfc2402bis
>>202	draft-ietf-ipsec-esp-ah-algorithms
>>202	draft-zeilenga-ldap-authzid
>>236	draft-ietf-grow-collection-communities
>>237	draft-ietf-v6ops-3gpp-analysis
>>243	draft-behringer-mpls-security
>>243	draft-ietf-mboned-mroutesec
>>272	draft-ietf-l3vpn-as2547
>>272	draft-ietf-l3vpn-rfc2547bis
>>286	draft-holbrook-idmr-igmpv3-ssm
>>293	draft-ietf-ipsec-ikev2
>>297	draft-ietf-isis-igp-p2p-over-lan
>>303	draft-ietf-ipsec-ikev2-algorithms
>>303	draft-ietf-ipsec-ui-suites
>>332	draft-ietf-ipv6-node-requirements
>>332	draft-ietf-mboned-msdp-deploy
>>332	draft-ietf-mboned-ssm232
>>411	draft-ietf-ospf-graceful-impl-report
>>419	draft-ietf-magma-igmp-proxy
>>433	draft-ietf-ipoib-architecture
>>474	draft-ietf-imapext-condstore
>>495	draft-ietf-ospf-2547-dnbit
>>503	draft-ietf-magma-igmpv3-and-routing
>>516	draft-ietf-ipsec-ciph-aes-ccm
>>559	draft-ietf-magma-snoop
>>684	draft-ietf-mmusic-sdpng-trans
>>838	draft-ietf-idwg-beep-idxp
>>838	draft-ietf-idwg-requirements
>>853	draft-ietf-smime-symkeydist
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
> 
>