Re: Tricky cross-area topics
"Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com> Sun, 06 October 2019 14:37 UTC
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Subject: Re: Tricky cross-area topics
To: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>, "Salz, Rich" <rsalz@akamai.com>
Cc: IETF WG Chairs <wgchairs@ietf.org>
References: <77b22339-6a8e-8eaa-a695-724deb963dec@nostrum.com> <B5171FA2-F2B8-4BD6-BE9C-F669FCD86373@gmail.com> <6C35326B-7C1B-404F-AE1B-CFA9023CF82B@mnot.net> <1123.1570358631@dooku.sandelman.ca> <55214F7E-86D2-4333-B3BB-02CDB0B9A198@akamai.com> <7511.1570371820@dooku.sandelman.ca>
From: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
Message-ID: <137da692-24ed-c3e0-1164-a9d92532d035@joelhalpern.com>
Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2019 10:37:08 -0400
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Michael, you seem to be mixing several things. Using the shepherding job to help train folks is something I have seen discussed in several places, anbd tried to do. Appointing shepherds early is practiced by some working groups and not others. But in no case that I know of is the shepherd's job to report whether the WG process worked well. the shepherd report does include whether the consensus was rough, clear, ... But that is NOT a report on whether the process worked well. Yours, Joel On 10/6/2019 10:23 AM, Michael Richardson wrote: > > Salz, Rich <rsalz@akamai.com> wrote: > >> The trend is supposed to now be that shepherds are assigned when the > >> document > >> is adopted. That is so that they can watch to how the consensus is > >> formed. > > > I have never heard, nor been told that. > > It could be that I've made this up, or that it's just something I've been > doing. But, I don't think that I'm alone in this delusion. I know that it's > not widespread. Nor is the practice of trying to have people who are not the > WG chair be shepherds. > > A reason I give for doing this is because it trains people up a bit to be > able to become WG chairs. And it gives the WG chairs (and AD) a bit like an > idea if the person would make a good chair.... and lord needs we need more WG > chairs (and more diverse of them), because... only WG chairs can become ADs. > [an unwritten rule enforced by IAB] > > > I have also heard and been told that the WG chairs, perhaps with > > observation by the AD at a meeting, decide consensus. > > Yes, WG chairs should be trying to judge consensus at meetings, and on > mailing lists. The shepherd's job is to observe and report whether this > process worked well or not. > > > Where did you get this? Is it written down in any guidance for WG > > chairs? > > Sorry, I don't know. I could wander around the WG chair pages and look again. >
- Tricky cross-area topics Adam Roach
- Re: Tricky cross-area topics Russ Housley
- Re: Tricky cross-area topics Jeffrey Haas
- RE: Tricky cross-area topics Dave Thaler
- Re: Tricky cross-area topics Suzanne Woolf
- Re: Tricky cross-area topics Warren Kumari
- RE: Tricky cross-area topics Jim Schaad
- Re: Tricky cross-area topics Eric Vyncke (evyncke)
- Re: Tricky cross-area topics Mark Nottingham
- Re: Tricky cross-area topics Michael Richardson
- Re: Tricky cross-area topics Salz, Rich
- Re: Tricky cross-area topics Michael Richardson
- Re: Tricky cross-area topics Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Tricky cross-area topics Michael Richardson
- Re: Tricky cross-area topics Michael Richardson
- Re: Tricky cross-area topics Warren Kumari
- Re: Tricky cross-area topics Michael Richardson